Episode 162 - Leadership Energy with Lana Hailemariam

[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to the Leadership window podcast with Dr. Patrick Jenks. Each week through a social sector lens, Patrick interviews leaders and experts and puts us in touch with trends and tips for leading effectively. Patrick is a board certified executive coach, a member of the Forbes Coaches Council, a best selling author, award winning photographer and a professional speaker. And now, here's Dr. Patrick Jinks. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Hey everyone. Welcome to episode 162 of the Leadership Window. Glad you are along. I'm loving doing this and I'm really excited about this week because my guest today is talking about a concept I've talked about a lot in my coaching. You've probably heard us talk about it here, but she has a system for it and I don't know, an academia behind it, a theory behind it framework. And you know how I love frameworks. So we're gonna get into her framework. She is Lana Halmarium and she is the CEO at StandUp. And I'll just tell you right now, we'll put it on our episode page. But go to teamstandup.com I'll give you that now. I'll give it to you at the end of the show. You're gonna want it. There's a lot of cool resources on there, including on our episode page as well, a link to a self assessment you can take in about 10 minutes or so, gauging kind of where your energy sits as a leader in a way that you probably haven't considered it before through a lens you may not have looked through before. But when I met Lana, albeit distance, we started talking about energy. She first used this idea about this energy kind of index and things. And I went, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. What? Energy. Let's talk about energy. I love that because I always put, Lana, you may remember this from our earlier call. I always put energy in place of time. And we'll talk about that. But anyway, welcome to the show, Alana. Thank you for connecting with us and for coming on and. And I will start by asking you to say whatever I missed in my introduction of you. What is it people need to know or that you want them to know about who you are and what you're doing? [00:02:33] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks. Hi everybody. Thanks for having me. What did you miss? Not much. Let me just tell you how I do a good amount of public speaking and bios make me so nauseous. I just, I just, you know, I just think that they're weird. But I would say the things I would want people to know about me is that number one, I'm a coach. Not a consultant. So you can identify with that. And what that means is I show up with people differently because I show up for people. I believe in humanity and not. [00:03:08] Speaker B: The consultants don't believe in humanity. Right. [00:03:12] Speaker C: No, we need consultants. I know we need consultants in the world. The difference between a coach and a consultant is probably that consultants need to be expert subject matter experts and their teaching, you know, coaches, sometimes we actually are subject matter experts, but primarily we're there for the humans in the room to help move them through an experience of growth and evolution, something like that, to tap into something within themselves. So it's just a different way to get to a thing, right? No, but the humanity part was more so about me that just I, I look at the world today, it's a little rough out here, and I, I still believe in humanity. I just do. I believe that there are great people out here doing great work, that there are great companies, and that sometimes we don't get to see the greatness. So I would say that's something I want people to know about me, is that when I go out into the world, I'm reminded that it is hard out here because I get to work with so many great people all the time, and I, I'm delusionally thinking that's how the world is. [00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah, everybody must be great. [00:04:25] Speaker C: Everybody's great. No, then I, then I take a flight somewhere, and then immediately I'm back in reality. [00:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, man, that's funny. Lana. So we have, we have so much in common. And just the way we talk about this work, I have to tell you, my, My son told me once, he was kind of being tongue in cheek, but it was kind of powerful. He goes, yeah, dad, you don't, you know, talking about the difference between a coach and a consultant, he says, yeah, dad. You don't answer people's questions. You question their answers. [00:04:58] Speaker C: Yes. [00:04:59] Speaker B: And, yeah, I thought, yeah, that is what I do. You know, challenge assumptions, question their, you know, use inquiry. We, we have a definition of coaching. You probably do too, Lon. And if you have a formal one, please share it with us. Ours, our definition of coaching. And we, we go through a lot of different, like of the academic definitions of coaching among some of the top leaders and things when we're doing our coaching training. And much like leadership, I realized a long time ago that we should have our own framework and definition of this. You know, even though it's only one right answer. But our definition of leadership coaching is intentional interaction that draws out and elevates the clients or the coachee's best thinking toward their own committed actions that lead to their desired results or solutions. And it's why we call our company the leader's perspective. It's not the coach's perspective that matters. It's the leader's perspective that we're coaching. That's what we're trying to draw out and elevate and get you to see things maybe that you didn't really know. You're viewing things a certain way and again, questioning intent and thing. But you're the way you describe the difference between a consultant and a coach. Spot on. [00:06:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. I think I would say so what I say when people are like, oh, well what do you do? I say I help people and or organizations move from wherever they are to wherever they want to be. [00:06:27] Speaker B: That's it. That's it. And it seems like every episode this there's a spot for me to throw in this leadership definition. Dwight Eisenhower. Yes. He said leadership is the art of getting people to do things you want done because they want to do it. [00:06:42] Speaker C: Because they want to do it is the key. [00:06:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right, man. Good stuff. So tell me how standup came to be. How are you in this world? What brought you to this world of helping people think about their energy and their leadership and their teams in this way? [00:06:56] Speaker C: Yeah, great question. So Standup was founded by Amy Brady. And Amy lived in, actually still lives in Denver. I originally am from the the DMV, DC, MD, VA, not the Department of Motor Vehicles. And I moved here from Maryland in 2016. And so I met Amy, I want to say 2017 or 2018, very early, you know, soon after I got here. And she had this company called Stand up and it was just a one person operation and I was her first employee. And when I tell you we it's like running into my soulmate on earth. We just spray spoke to kind of like how we were talking early in our earlier call. Just the connection, the same language, the thinking, the philosophy on life, it was just all there. I felt so connected to her. So we grew Stand up actually into two different businesses and she went on to grow and maintain the other business. And I bought Stand up from her and we still are very close. So right now I have a team of we're a small team, like four to five coaches right now and a few administrative folks on board. But we do really great work. [00:08:17] Speaker B: I can tell that you do. I mean just looking at your framework and your approach to this work, going through the assessment, we'll talk about it in a minute. I did this assessment that you offer, and I know it's only one of the assessments that you have, but it's a good entree into the kind of work you do and then what you can do for the client after they take the assessment and discover some things about themselves. Again, you've got. You've got cohorts and things that people can get involved in with you that we'll talk about a little bit later. But, you know, you can tell when there's quality work. I mean, there are. We say this all the time. Anybody can be a coach now, right? There's no. There's no barrier to entry. You just. You just put coach in your email signature, and you're a coach. [00:09:08] Speaker C: I have all the feelings about this. [00:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. I know. I do, too. And it's not. It's not, you know, condescending or arrogant feelings, but it is. We are realizing that while coaching is not a regulated industry, it is becoming more and more professionalized, standardized, really lifted up, I think, and elevated to a place where it's. It is a pretty solid discipline that comes with us with some core competencies and some ethics and some. Some skills that you. You learn. You know, there are people who are natural mentors and supporters and even coaches, but this industry of coaching is. It's exploding. It's continued. It's continuing to explode. But when that happens, you do kind of have to look out for, you know, the. I mean, there's just. Coaches are everywhere. Dime a dozen, right? So you can tell when someone has the discipline, has the credentials, has the excellence, and you. You exhibit that very quickly, so. [00:10:12] Speaker C: Oh, thank you. Thank you. I was wondering where you were going with this. I don't know. I was looking a little dark for a second there. [00:10:18] Speaker B: No, no. But, you know, they're out there, and I. [00:10:22] Speaker C: You know, I 100% agree. Fun story. So. So my partner is a therapist, and he and I have talked for a while, and the. I won't say the whole company name, but it was counseling and coaching on it, you know, so he meets me, you know, falls in love, happily ever after. And he gets the opportunity to see me coach either groups, environments, when I'm leading workshops, or sometimes he can just hear me with two of my clients. I ask, I'll say, hey, my. My. My husband's in the room, you know, daughter's in the room. I just want to let you know. And sometimes I'll move to another room for the conversation, but other times, they're like, it's fine. No, no worries. And I do that all the time because typically it's a, it's a very confidential space. But some of my clients, it doesn't, it's not a big deal. Well, a couple of times he was able to just hear me. He never hears them. If he hears a little bit, if I'm walking through. Let me tell you, Patrick, how I got so much respect after him hearing just a couple of, you know, moments of me coaching someone to the point where he has removed and coaching from his business name and now he wants to go get certified through IPEC like I am, because he recognizes this is a skill and this is work. You don't always, you cannot always translate the skills that you got from your professional line of work right into coaching. There really is an art and a science to it that can be learned. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Yeah. And it is a, it's a discipline that sort of sits between counseling, consulting, mentoring, facilitating, you know, all of those things. And I, you know, I've followed the work and gotten involved in a lot of the work of Dr. Peter Hawkins, who is the sort of guru on systemic team coaching. And, you know, he is really leading me to understand too, that when you hit this discipline of stay in coach mode, once you master that, you can start to back off and become a little more hybrid. You can have more partnering conversations rather than just, you know, interview inquiry where coaches feel like they're being grilled. Right. And you can co create. And there's a place, I do believe there's a place for adding my perspective, even a recommendation here and there. But the idea is it's all through the coaching lens. If I'm, if I'm just, you know, saying, all right, let's assess where you are. Here's what you need to do A, B and C. Well, then I'm, I'm a consultant. [00:13:08] Speaker C: Right. [00:13:08] Speaker B: And so. [00:13:09] Speaker C: Right. And it's different work. [00:13:10] Speaker B: It is different work. It's meaningful. We gotta have them, as you said, [00:13:14] Speaker C: gotta, like, listen, we need our consultants. [00:13:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's times you probably play one and I do too. There are those times when. Yeah, it's. [00:13:25] Speaker C: Well, I started as a consultant. Did you start as a consultant or did you go straight to coach? [00:13:30] Speaker B: No, straight to coaching. [00:13:31] Speaker C: Straight to coach. Okay. [00:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that was just. I got, I got hooked in with Dr. Jim Smith at Leadership Systems and he is, you know, he really gave us the, the kind of purest aspect of coaching. He's a 30, 30 year coach and trainer at the center for Creative Leadership and you know, so kind of wrote, wrote some of the book on that. But yeah, no, I didn't. You know, we do consulting. We're. I'm in some consulting networks as a consultant because people, you know, you're, you are serving organizations for pay and sometimes, yeah, they, they don't know. The clients often don't know the difference between coaching and consulting. They're hiring you, they think they're hiring a consultant and you have to really explain to them what the process is. But yeah, there are times if it's strategic planning or if it's, you know, an area that I am an expert in that I can play that consultant or even trainer. I was in a session this morning and they had it on the agenda as leadership training. And then they introduced me and I said, I hate to tell you, but the agenda item is not worded right. This is not a training session. [00:14:43] Speaker C: We will not be training today. [00:14:44] Speaker B: This is a coaching session. So anyway, Lana, I took this assessment that you have and I know this energy leadership profile thing is not the only thing you do. I mean you're. Again, I want to encourage people go to the website, there's lots of things. It's a full on leadership coaching company. This idea of energy is where I really wanted to focus this episode though. And the reason is because you'll, you'll remember this. But I'll say this for our audiences. One of the things I, one of the biggest challenges my coaches face on a regular basis is time management. Right? Oh, I just, I need more time or I gotta, I gotta make time for something or I just have to find the time. And I always challenge the words and I say, we can't manage time, can. We can't manage time. Time is a think about the concept of time. We can't manage it. It's going on without us, with us. It's not paying of how what we want, it's just, it just is what it is. We can't make time. We say, I want to make time for something. You can't add an hour to the day. [00:15:51] Speaker C: Right? Right. [00:15:52] Speaker B: So what we can manage and navigate is our own energy. It's how we spend the time that we all have and it's the bandwidth that we open up to what and where we spend our energy and what consumes our energy. And so people will say, well, you know, if I were to carve out, if I were to make a pie chart and break it into percentages of where my time is spent, you know, I spend 20% of my time in meetings. And I spend 30% of my time on the phone on calls. And I ask them, do a new pie chart and make it percentages on where you believe your energy is going. [00:16:37] Speaker C: There you go. [00:16:38] Speaker B: Where are you spending your energy in your pie chart. And that's a little bit about what this assessment does, although it's. And it is, it's even a pie chart that results. But it's. But it's in a framing that was a little surprising to me and pretty encouraging, pretty familiar once I, once I looked at it. But talk a little bit about the importance of energy in your work, where this energy leadership profile comes from. How does it play a work in your coaching world? [00:17:07] Speaker C: Listen, say less. I could talk about this all week. [00:17:11] Speaker B: Go. [00:17:11] Speaker C: So what we do at standup is yes, we are a leadership coaching company, but we pride ourselves on everything we do is rooted in adult emotional intelligence. And so when we think about emotional intelligence and the power that we have as individuals to expand our being, our thinking, our feeling, all of that, then sometimes how people tap into that is through assessments. And so yes, we do offer several assessments some people have heard of like DISC and cliftonstrengths. Right. I'm certified in, in that. But the one that people haven't often heard about is ener, the Energy Leadership Index. And the Energy Leadership Index was created by ipec, the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching, which is one of my coaching credentials. And Bruce Schneider is the founder of IPEC and created the framework around energy leadership. And so it basically models seven levels of energy. The idea is that we all pretty much exist through all of the energies there may be. I haven't seen a report that has zero in any level, but some people are really, really small in certain areas. But the idea, the concept is we all move through all these different energy levels and if we're not careful, we will do it subconsciously. Meaning we can go through the whole day, move through all these energy levels and never be any the wiser. We won't be aware. So what we hope to do is create more awareness that people have around their own energy, but also language. And I think that's the piece that you liked is. Is the language of the framework that we can name it. I had an interesting call. I want to tell you the short story and then promise I'm get back on track. But I went to the mountains. So I'm in Denver. I went to the mountains over the weekend and I didn't have great service out there. In fact, the only thing that did work was texting and an occasional phone call if I stood in the right place in the cabin and I got a call from a client that I wasn't expecting and she never calls and so I answered it and she called me and the first thing she said was, I gotta warn you, I'm heavy in level two right now. And just. Right. Just using the language and the energy and the framework makes it so much easier for us to communicate in that moment and it makes it easier for her now. She doesn't have to go and reach for all these words that she just doesn't have because she's in level two. She says level two, I know what that means. And then we can move forward from there. [00:19:51] Speaker B: I love it. [00:19:52] Speaker C: Did I answer your question? [00:19:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Shared, shared language is really important that way because you know what level two, you know, you get, you know what that is? It's interesting. There's a, there's a counter side to that that I'll just throw out there. And that is we, we often see people, you see this with disc. Right. I'm an I. Right. I'm an S. Right. [00:20:11] Speaker C: Yes. [00:20:12] Speaker B: I'm a red. I'm a. I'm a tiger. I'm a. And so it's these labels we use from these assessments and we start defining ourselves as the label. Yeah, the box mentality and what I like about this. And this is what's different though about the levels because it's. We, we do an assessment that has similar language to this. We discovered. We'll talk about it in a minute. But when you say I'm a D, that's an identity thing. But when you say I'm sitting in a level two right now, that's a place in time thing. [00:20:47] Speaker C: It is. [00:20:47] Speaker B: And that's different than an identity thing. [00:20:50] Speaker C: It is. The Energy Leadership Index is more an attitudinal snapshot. It's, it's where you are now. And so in fact at some point maybe I know that we'll talk a bit more about Leaders on the rise, which is the intense three day cohort that we have to deep dive into people, into leaders energy and help them really deeply understand it and give them the tools to manage it and influence it. But you have to take the assessment to participate in that. We recommend that afterward you go to work, you use the tools that we gave you, you know, and get, get to work. And then in about six months you can take it again and then you can take it again and then you can take it again. You want to see how you're growing and where your energy is most of the time. We're moving all of the time throughout. But we also have some happy homes and some defaults. Like earlier you were telling me that your assessment has a word called achiever and that you are heavy and achiever. Ours does too. We'll have to figure out if they kind of mean the same thing. And so your default might be achiever for that assessment. It doesn't mean you don't explore all the other options at any given point. [00:22:11] Speaker B: That's right. [00:22:12] Speaker C: And there's no better. There's no better or worse too. People like to. [00:22:16] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. [00:22:17] Speaker C: People like to think the highest one is the best one. It's actually may not be in our [00:22:23] Speaker B: work and this is a little different. So they're not apples and apples. The assessment we do is it's based on the work of Bill Torbert and vertical Development, Vertical Adult Development and what he calls action logics and action inquiry. And that we operate from a center of gravity. [00:22:43] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:43] Speaker B: But that we also have stretches where we're reaching ahead of our current worldview and we're operating in a stage beyond us that we're not fully in yet. But we have some operational competency in that. We also have what we call fallback or reach back into previous stages and levels. There are times, for example, where a supportive leader is living in that as their center of gravity. It's how they lead. Right. So their energy is in distributed leadership. Supported, delegating autonomy and supporting and being a resource and developing people. There are times when they need to lean back a little bit into the achiever level when deadlines or situations call for it. Just like there are times when they need to be able to stretch ahead of supportive leader and test the status quo and be a catalyst for new things and question things. What. What in the action logics we would call the redefining stage. Okay, so I let your. Again, we're saying the exact. We're using some of the same language in that these come online for us as we experience leadership in our careers, in our lives. We don't. We don't start out as catalyst leaders in my view. In the assessment we do, we learn in leadership how to start asking more questions, how to not have to rely so much on my expertise and my, you know, we learn the difference between command and control and distributed leadership. So in the vertical development world we use, it's about these things coming online for us through stages of our leadership journey. And that feels better than I'm a this right that it's like, oh no, this is what's online for me right now. Does that resonate? [00:24:42] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I 100% agree. The one thing I would say maybe is different is I do think some people are just natural, let's call it level five leaders. So level five, when we're talking energy is a very collaborative energy. It's we all win, we all have something to contribute. Let's all get in here and. But it's also very solution oriented. Level 5 is all about solving, repairing, forward movement and it is also very collaborative. So it's not just let me solve the problem. It's let's us solve the problem and let's find the best ways that everybody can contribute to solve it. There are some people that default there. That's just how they are and who they are. Right. Doesn't mean it's helping or working well for them. And that's where we can help with the shadow and the sun side of all the things. [00:25:43] Speaker B: Oh, that's good. We. So again, in the vertical development, we would say well played versus overplayed. [00:25:50] Speaker C: There you go. [00:25:51] Speaker B: Yeah, there. So all of these have a hero and all of them have a villain. Right. All of them have a caution, not a villain. And all of them have a hero. A hero. There's value in all of these levels. There's also caution in all of them. Yeah. And I think you're right. You're definitely right. People are born with certain things. There are some innate qualities. What happens though, I think during our, during our lives is sometimes we leave those natural gifts unattended to or undeveloped because we take them for granted as a natural gift. Yeah, it's like, it's like a musical person who just has talent running out their ears. But they could be, but they could be 10 times better if they put a discipline and a framework behind music theory or what, you know, whatever those things are, so we can develop these things as well. It's the age old question, right? Are leaders born or made? And the answer is yes. [00:26:50] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. There are a lot of. You know, I would do the sports analogy, right. And I think specifically about this conversation has come up so much. I've been watching a lot of shows, documentaries, interviews with NFL players. You know, I have a love hate relationship with the NFL right now. But anyways, just this idea that there's so much natural talent out there. I mean, when you go to the south, football is a religion, you know, almost the level of talent is insane at seven such a Young level. So, so it doesn't mean that there aren't, there isn't natural greatness that's out there. Some of those young people work harder than other young people. Some of the ones that don't work as hard will get farther than the ones who are not working as hard just because of some innate gifts and some talents. The truth of the matter is that even the greatest of the greatest don't often make it to the less than 1% that get into the NFL. And that's where it comes to discipline, practice. It's natural talent becomes irrelevant at that level. At that point it's discipline, urgency. I can't think of the word. But that, that dog in you, that, that persistence, that consistency. There's something else that becomes necessary at that level of sports. And so that's what I would kind of liken it to. There's this raw natural talent that maybe sits at the bottom of the rung. Then there's the physical investment. There's a mindset portion of it. Right. There's a nutrition and eating portion. And then there's something else that is the only thing that gets you to that highest point. And I would say that that's true for energy. You're going to exist in all of these levels. How you exist there and what your ripple effect is in each level depends on your ability and willingness to be aware, to invest in yourself, to care. All of these other things. [00:29:00] Speaker B: Yep. And the word there is commitment. [00:29:03] Speaker C: And there it is. [00:29:04] Speaker B: The ones that succeed the most are the ones that are the most highly committed. And I want to go back to something you said earlier about take this again and then take it again and then take it again. That's the beauty of emotional intelligence is, you know, our IQ is pretty hardwired. Yes, it can be developed over time, but it's, it's pretty hardwired. [00:29:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:26] Speaker B: Emotional intelligence, some of it's hardwired, but it can be move that needle can move with intent. Awareness and commitment and discipline. You can improve your emotional intelligence. [00:29:41] Speaker C: Yes. It's very malleable. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:45] Speaker C: I will also say that it's equal parts frustrating, you know, to be. To have a heightened awareness around one's emotional intelligence really unlocks that a window that, that we, we can't close anymore. I can't unsee what I've seen in myself or even in others. And so I would say it's a double edged sword and I commend those who walk toward it because it ain't the easy path. It looks pretty and Shiny. But it's hard work. [00:30:16] Speaker B: It is hard work, but it's so much more valuable than not knowing. [00:30:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. [00:30:21] Speaker B: You know, we all have blind spots and we all have shadow beliefs about who. Who we are and why. And it turns out we're often wrong about ourselves. That's half of emotional intelligence, is our sensitivity to ourselves, how well we know ourselves and how. How disciplined we are in, you know, honoring our own identities. The other half, of course, is how perceptive we are of others and how we treat our behavior toward others. But I. We. I mean, we assess people whose self awareness and self identity and self confidence is low, which is all a part of that self side of emotional intelligence. And with effort, you can improve those. [00:31:08] Speaker C: I think so. And also I'd speak to the highest of the highest levels of leadership. I would argue that we need it most there. And, and here's why. Because the higher up we go, Patrick, I. We. The fewer guardrails we have, the more power and control that we're given, the less we have to work on ourselves. Because people just have to listen. They have to do it. [00:31:37] Speaker B: They have to. [00:31:38] Speaker C: They have to go along. And so there's. When we're climbing the ladder, there's, I think, a lot more access and openness to developing because it's like, I want to get to this level. I want to get to this level. Sometimes we have some leaders that get to a certain point and get comfortable, and the ways that they challenge themselves are also comfortable. And it's really hard to find a voice. So I really admire that so many executive coaches like myself are hitting the streets, so to speak, because I think at that level too, you need a level of safety and confidentiality. You can't just go talk and do this, work out in public with everyone all the time until you're comfortable doing that. And so I just want to throw that out there. I think you talked about blind spots. I do see a good amount of that at every level of an organization. But even with myself, I'm at the top of my organization. I don't have to. I don't. I choose to look at myself. I don't have to. And it doesn't mean I'm an. You know, it just means I choose to work on my blind spots and be open to feedback. And I don't always do it well or right, but. But I choose that. And there's a power in choosing that, in choosing to be open. Even at this level. [00:33:04] Speaker B: In our world, coaching is not remedial. Coaching is for those who are already succeeding, you take the top Fortune 500 CEOs, they use coaches. You take the top tennis players, golfers, you know, individual sports. I mean, these guys into their great and into their peaks and beyond. They are hiring the best of the best of the best coaches, not because they're not good tennis players. [00:33:37] Speaker C: That part. Yes, that's it. That's exactly it. And I think that's the beauty of executive coaching, is it gives that psychological safety, that safe environment where I can look at myself before I have to be exposed. Exposure is also a beautiful place. I think it's a part of the EQ journey is this idea of being wrong publicly, you know, apologizing in front of people, getting. Making the wrong choice and just owning it a hundred percent, even if you weren't the only one that made the choice. Little things like that. But that becomes easier as our. As these coaches help us to work on ourselves in. In the privacy space that we need. [00:34:20] Speaker B: Yeah. One of Covey's 13 behaviors that drive trust is to right wrongs, including your own. [00:34:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:30] Speaker B: You know, to admit mistakes. You know, Brene Brown talks about vulnerability as a leader. You know, that. That space of saying, hey, I'm a human too. I get it. You know, I was wrong on this. I would love it. If you don't mind. Do you want to walk us through these levels and just give a quick description of what they are and what they mean? [00:34:52] Speaker C: I surely will. So if you were to take our assessment, which I think you're going to share for everyone, then these are the names that are on our assessment. Okay. So level. The levels go from one to seven, and there are two kinds of energy. There's catabolic energy and there's anabolic energy. Catabolic energy feels heavy, draining, sometimes even stagnant. It often can create friction or stillness, meaning no action, inaction. Anabolic energy can feel fueling, healing. It feels lighter and more forward, moving. I also want to say, if you vision one through seven, envision it on a spectrum versus buckets. Okay, so one and two are catabolic. And then as you go into three through seven, that's more and more anabolic energy. But it's not just I'm here or there. It's very much a continuum. So level one is survivor. A survivor leader. Level one. The core emotions here are doubt, grief, sadness. A lack of confidence lives here. It might sound like I lose. It is. There's no action happening here. It's all self. What do you call it? Self focused. And it's high judgment on self. And so a survivor leader. How they might work is they're constantly under stress. They are. They might also be complainers. Sometimes they're external complainers. You'll hear it. But mostly always they're internal complainers. Constantly complaining about how hard it is for them, how they have no support, how no one cares, no one wants to help me. And so think about if. When we've ever had. If we've ever had those conversations with ourselves, that was a level one moment for, for you, you know. So how level one might be useful. Well, sometimes it makes sense to pause and take a look at ourselves. Sometimes it makes sense to be critical of ourselves. I will say this for every energy level. Do not stay longer than it serves you. And that's the danger zone with the lower levels of energy one and two is that we call them campers. Some people camp. [00:37:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:22] Speaker C: In these energy levels. You ever. Is there somebody maybe that in your career or even in your family or in your friend group that as I'm describing it, they're just really high in this level one energy, we call it victim energy. It's a feeling of powerlessness. Everything's happening to me. I can't do anything about it. Poor me. Do you know anybody? [00:37:43] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, we. Sure. [00:37:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:48] Speaker B: And you know, just to. I don't want to dilute this at all. I want. This is your model I'm wanting to promote here, but for your sake. The interesting thing to me about this was how it did sort of mirror a little bit the vertical development worldview stages. And in this, what you're calling the survival we. The vertical development called the opportunist. Which, which is not what it sounds like. Right. The op. You think opportunist sounds good, but the opportunist is all about self survival at all costs. Like it's. I gotta win, I'm. I gotta jockey for position. I feel threatened by other people. I've gotta make sure I'm hurt. You know, I'll manipulate if I have to to get my way because I'm positioning, because I'm defensive and I'm threatened by everything. So. So that this sort of reminds me of that you're adding a layer on top of it. Definitely with the whole self. Self deprecating thought of not even self deprecating. Just I, I would go with that. Yeah. Yeah. [00:38:50] Speaker C: I would sign off on self deprecating. I don't know. But see that the opportunist sounds more like level two. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Okay. [00:38:56] Speaker C: So level two, the Core feeling. [00:38:58] Speaker B: I see it. Yeah. [00:38:59] Speaker C: Our anger, defensiveness, resentment, blame, criticism, all of that lives in level two. This is the one where it's like, yeah, I'm gonna manipulate this or I'm gonna argue you down, or I'm. What I have to do because it's. I got to get what I, I need the win and. And doesn't matter anything else. [00:39:21] Speaker B: And what's the label for level two? [00:39:24] Speaker C: Level two is the defender. [00:39:25] Speaker B: Defender. Okay. [00:39:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:27] Speaker B: I'm asking because the. So I'm looking at. I know our, our audience can't see this stuff. I'm looking at the, the sort of primer the energy leadership explained. And I see this, I see these seven levels. They don't have those labels on them. They're more description. In the assessment, I'm seeing six levels. [00:39:49] Speaker C: Ah, good point. Yes, there are seven levels, but the seventh level, we'll just jump there. The seventh level is it. It doesn't often show up at work. So when we're thinking about leaders, leading from a level seven is not possible. It's more like a meditative state. Right. A prayer state. [00:40:10] Speaker B: I. This, this, these have to be based on each other because in, in ours, it's alchemical, and you hardly ever see any alchemical in the workplace. In, in these assessments. And so in some of the worksheets and things we do, we don't even include the alchemical because it's like one. It's like 1% of the. [00:40:28] Speaker C: Yeah, same thing. And, and mind you, we teach it because people need to be aware. And we, we teach as a holistic experience. We're not going to not say it because it does matter. [00:40:39] Speaker B: Okay. [00:40:39] Speaker C: But it doesn't. We don't. Nobody really benefits if it's at work happening. [00:40:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, these are good. Keep. Keep going. I'm sorry to keep interrupting you. [00:40:49] Speaker C: No, I love it. Please do. Oh, so the. We talked about the defender leader, that's level two, and we're still in catabolic energy. One and two are catabolic. Highly judgmental. Remember, one is I judge myself. Two is I'm judging you. Right. I win, you lose. Is the thinking of level two. Now, what are some benefits of level two? Honestly, advocacy comes up a lot here. A lot of people who don't identify with level two, but they have level two on their report. When I bring up to them something like, if they are witnessing an injustice, they are likely to speak up for someone else before they'll speak up for themselves. And that also is a form of level two. I think about the client that called me on the weekend when I was in the mountains. Right. She kept apologizing for being in level two. And I continued to remind her, how is this energy serving you right now? And she was able to say, well, I've been holding on to this for so long. Level 2 can be a beautiful outlet for built up feelings that you haven't given space or time or processed. The second thing is it moved her to action. She made some really big decisions during our call. And so sometimes you need, sometimes we need to be just pissed off. Just right, you know, to, to move our, to move ourselves into action. And so there are some benefits, but you can also see how long term level two, it's exhausting and it's, it doesn't feel great. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I, the term that came to my head as you were talking was righteous indignation. [00:42:31] Speaker C: That's it. Righteousness. [00:42:32] Speaker B: And, and it's. But, but there's a difference, isn't there, between being self righteous. [00:42:37] Speaker C: Right. [00:42:38] Speaker B: And having righteous indignation that, that spurs you to action, spurs you. And maybe by, by a byproduct is that you also spur others to positive action. [00:42:50] Speaker C: I like that. I like that. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:53] Speaker C: And that's. And they're both. Level two is the thing, Patrick. Right. So if it's righteous indignation or self righteousness, it's both. It's both. Level two, it's the question is what's needed at this moment and then how will it manifest into action? [00:43:08] Speaker B: So good, because that. Now back to the emotional intelligence framework. It's the difference between awareness and management. I can be aware of something, how I respond to that awareness, what I do with that awareness is where the magic of emotional intelligence really lies. [00:43:25] Speaker C: That's it. I wonder. I can give you also the. We have a stand up picture of the emotional intelligence journey. And so just like you said, self awareness is the first step, but it's only the front door. [00:43:39] Speaker B: That's right. [00:43:40] Speaker C: The next step is self regulation. Okay, so I see it now. What do I want to do about it? And you know, how will I manage this within myself or with this person? And then next is intentional action. Now I'm taking a conscious action and then I'm going to observe the impact. If I like the impact, I rinse and repeat. If I don't like the impact, I have three places I can check. Was it my action, how did I regulate or my awareness, did I miss something? [00:44:07] Speaker B: That's good. Good. Okay, so then from defender. [00:44:13] Speaker C: Okay, so let's creep on into Anabolic energy. So level three is the first step in anabolic energy and we call this one the achiever. Think about this as the manager, kind of the head down manager at work. Level three sounds like I, I win, but it's okay if you win too different from level two, which is I win, you lose. So level three is very mindset shift, not high action. It's more internal mindset shift first. And it's also self preservation. It's a little selfish because it's like I just need to get this stuff done or I just want to make this decision. Yeah, the focus oriented, very results oriented. The focus for level three is very much what can I do right now with what I've got? Okay, so what? Right, so, okay, well we have an outdoor event and there's a, a thunderstorm that's brewing. Level one is, oh my God, the whole event is ruined. Right. Level two is, I'm so annoyed. Every time I throw an event, the stupid thunder comes and the lightning comes and it's just every time they always schedule me on this date, it's everybody else's fault. Right. And level three says, okay, a storm's coming. What now? Yeah, what are we gonna do now? [00:45:41] Speaker B: Yeah, what's plan B happen? [00:45:42] Speaker C: Yeah, what's, what are we gonna do? So that's level three. And I feel like that, I don't know. Is that similar to your achiever? [00:45:51] Speaker B: It's similar. It's not, it's not identical of course, but it's similar. What's. Well, I will tell you something interesting. The, the. So in the, in our vertical development framing, it starts at opportunist, then it moves to diplomatic. And the diplomat just wants to belong. They want to feel safe. I just, I just want to be, just. I'll agree with everybody, right? I'm not going to make way, I'm passive, I'm not going to make waves. I'm very diplomatic in how I'm tact, I'm tactful and I'm, you know, I'm a peacemaker and all that. And then, and then we move to expert. [00:46:25] Speaker C: Okay. [00:46:26] Speaker B: And then we move to achiever. And what's true about this, you know, you said achiever in this model is the first anabolic energy. Well, expert is the first worldview stage at which people start becoming open to feedback. I found that so interesting in learning that opportunists and diplomats are not open to feedback. [00:46:51] Speaker C: They're not open. [00:46:52] Speaker B: Experts are a little bit. Achievers are really start opening up to feedback. That is fascinating and you know, I'm sure there's more correlations here in there, but. Yeah, yeah, but yeah. Achievers, results oriented oriented goals hitting go senses of accomplishment, even if it's for the greater good. So the achiever is not always selfish in their achievements. It can be again, the manager who wants to hit the KPIs because they have loyalty to the company and they want to do it. You know, that's right. So yeah, I love it. [00:47:23] Speaker C: Okay, I see, Yeah, I do see a lot of correlations. I said it's the first step into anabolic energy is also interest. It's also important to point out that there's still high judgment here. So the misnomer is that anabolic energy is judgment free or inherently better or something. And just be careful because at level three there's still high judgment. And what that means is, well, if I, if I'm saying okay, now what, it's because I don't want to deal with your nonsense right now. Or you know, there's one dissenter on the team and this person's kind of causing people to write level three acknowledges that and judges the energy and it acknowledges that it's there and it chooses something else. So there still is judgment. [00:48:20] Speaker B: That is fascinating. And I wonder if, if this, if the achiever in this model might combine a little bit of the expert achiever in the other. Because the expert has judgment in it to say, I know and they don't. I have the answers. They should be listening to me. I have expertise in this. [00:48:38] Speaker C: Gotcha. Yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah. So this is where it sounds like all of the aspects of energy and leadership are in both and they're slightly differently categorized because. Huh. [00:48:58] Speaker B: The biggest difference is in you're, you're gauging energy here. [00:49:03] Speaker C: That's it. [00:49:03] Speaker B: And your action and then the other is gauging action and they go hand in hand, obviously. But I love the thought of, I mean, I'm going to overlay this. I gotta tell you this. This is really good to overlay on the action. Well, it's action logic. So logically, right. This is. If this is where you're spending your energy, it's where you're going to behave. Your behaviors are going to follow that. [00:49:26] Speaker C: It's very. Oh, I'm so glad you said that. Because this is the, this is the trouble with trainings. I'm air quoting trainings. Right. We can tell people what to do all day. When I come in for a two or three hour workshop, you know, at the end of the Workshop. I say to people, I could have told you this and 20 minutes, why didn't I? And then all of a sudden people see that you have it. You know, you have to move people into the energy where they are open to initiate the change for themselves versus just telling them what to do. And so, yeah, they do go hand in hand for sure. Okay, all right, so I want to give you a better example and then we'll move on. But that's also. What am I saying? Oh, judgment for three. It's high in forgiveness. I forgive that you're dissenting right now. And we're going to just keep it moving. Right. It's a way to move past. But if you're forgiving somebody, you judged them in the first place, you have [00:50:26] Speaker B: the right to be wrong. [00:50:27] Speaker C: There's right. Right. So just acknowledging that now, the diplomat, I think connects with level four, which is, I think we call it the supportive supporter leader. This is level four. And level four is all outward. And I'm saying all you, which is not I. Okay, so it's, you win. I'm giving to you. I'm caring for you. I'm taking care of you. I'm. I'm doing things that benefit you. I'm volunteering for you. I'm helping you. I'm contributing to you. Level four loves to be needed and to help and to contribute to give to others. Level 4 leaders have really trusting work environments. They have really open communication with their teams. A lot of times it feels really great to be under the leadership of a level 4 supporter leader. [00:51:24] Speaker B: Sounds like, sounds like the theory of servant leadership. [00:51:28] Speaker C: It is very much servant leadership. Now, the dark side is that because I'm constantly pouring out, I can slip into two or one rather quickly. So here's an example. I'm constantly helping everyone else when they send an email, I need help. Or can you look at. Or can you take a look here? That I'm constantly. So I send out my email, hey, can someone help me? And it's crickets now. Immediately I'm like, these people don't care about me. I never get the help that I need. I do all this stuff for all these people and they'd ever did it right. So it's a slippery slope if level four does not take care of themselves and replenish. It's so outward pouring that they have to stay balanced. Also, supporter leaders have a hard time making tough decisions because they're so connected to everyone and they value those relationships and connections. They can be indecisive. They can take a long time to make hard decisions and tough choices. They can hem and haw. They can advocate for people based on relationship, but not based on production. You know, things like that can get absolutely lost. [00:52:47] Speaker B: We talk about in disc, the difference between a D and an S. Yes. You know, the D, the driving, decisive directive. The S being the more nurturing, stabilizing, systemic. And the analogy, we use a silly analogy, you know, exaggeration is if we're in a, if we're in a room, if we're in a training and we're sitting around at round tables and we're doing work and the fire alarm goes off. Okay, well is it time right then for the supportive leader, for the S in disc to go, oh, oh, the fire alarm. This is a great opportunity. I want everyone to get your flip charts. I'd like to hear from every group on what you believe is our best response right now to this fire alarm. Because we want everybody's voice to be heard. I don't want to just be the dictator in this because that's not the kind of leader I am. That's not the right moment. It's not for that. You need the command and control. You need the achiever or maybe even the survivor to go, hey, you know, get your crap and get, you know, follow me. We're going to the east parking lot and move it. [00:53:54] Speaker C: We're moving. [00:53:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:53:56] Speaker C: So we don't have time for this. [00:53:57] Speaker B: Again, an exaggerated analogy, but it happens. There are times we have to be adaptive in these things. We can't. Supportive leadership isn't always the answer. No more than, no more than Catalystly. Catalyst can be overplayed. You're going to get to that in a minute. But Catalyst can be overplayed. You know, it can. Too much change too fast. [00:54:20] Speaker C: For example, you brought up, this isn't always the energy. None of them is always the energy. And that's the learning is, well, I'm existing in this heavily. Does that serve me and how does that serve the people around me and, and what is my energy at work and at home? A lot of high level leaders. One of the things that I've been, you know, researching is the divorce rate as it connects to promotions and more power and more money and how that impacts households. Right. The harder I'm working externally, I'm getting immediate validation from that. And so I give it more and more and more and then when I get home, am I giving it the same energy and effort? What's the energetic shift that happens before [00:55:09] Speaker B: you move on I want to acknowledge a question you've asked a few times and I just want to applaud it. And for those of listeners out there who are coaches or aspiring coaches, pay attention to Lana's question that she's asked a number of times. How is this serving you as a beautiful coaching question applied in so many wonderful areas? And I just wanted to highlight it. I've heard it several times and it's, it's such a powerful question. [00:55:38] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. A coach. I think all the coaches listening are probably smiling big right now. It's my favorite question. So I think about Catalyst. Right? That's the next one. Level five energy. We're moving out of that supporter energy and into level 5. Higher in the anabolic level 4 still has judgment there. Remember people, we're heading out of judgment, but we're not completely out just because we're in anabolic energy. Think about it. If I think you need help, then there's some judgment there. Right. If I think you need something from me to get, you know, then there's still some judgment there. So that's four. Now five is the first place we're seeing the tiniest bit of judgment. Five is truly this place of everybody here has value. How do we work together, get the best of everyone that's here and accomplish the mission or, and solve this problem or and come up with what we need to come up with in looking at this data. Right. It's a very collaborative, solution oriented environment. These folks in five are often considered, considered optimists. They only see solution and possibility and opportunity. If you said, hey, there's a thunderstorm coming, level five, this is an exaggerated example. Level five might be like how can we capture some lightning to create energy? You know, like they, they're not going to see the problem. And that sounds beautiful and wonderful. Most effective leaders exist heavily in level five. I'll say that in the workplace. I also, like you said, there's the danger zone. Level 5 leaders move fast and they don't like sitting in problems or negativity. And so oftentimes they can miss things. They can absolutely miss things. If your team needs to deal with the issue, Level 5 doesn't have the patience to sit in that very long. [00:57:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. They're not as detail oriented. It's much like the D's and the C's. [00:57:51] Speaker C: Yes. [00:57:51] Speaker B: In disc, you know, your C's are going to get its accuracy and it's caution and it's calculating and it's measure twice, cut once and the, the D's are like, let's go. We are paralyzing ourselves in all these meetings. Let's just try it and see what happens. It'll work. Trust me. And yeah, that you have to understand that this is an interesting. Lana. Because the Catalyst leader sounds most like transforming stage in action Logics. But there's a stage between these that I'd be interested in knowing if it fits anywhere in here. Between the achiever and the transformer is the redefiner and the redefiner. The way that we say it is that in the redefining stage, we're questioning things in a healthy way. Right? [00:58:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:43] Speaker B: Is this who I really want to be? Is this what I. Should we be doing this? You know, we've done it all this way all the time. But what's it getting? What's it. How's it serving us? Right? That's a redefining question. [00:58:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:55] Speaker B: So it. Redefining. We're asking about possibility in transforming. We're taking action. We're going, we're changing this. So it's almost sounds like the Catalyst leader is a combination of those two. [00:59:07] Speaker C: It does. I could see that as a part of the level 5 catalyst energy. If we're thinking in terms of winning and losing, it would sound like we all win or we don't play or. Yeah, that's what it is. And so there's lots of questioning in there. How do we. How do we win? Is this the best way to win? Yeah. [00:59:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it's good. [00:59:30] Speaker C: And why do we want to win? Right. [00:59:32] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:59:33] Speaker C: Why does it matter? [00:59:34] Speaker B: What is winning? [00:59:36] Speaker C: What. Oh, what is winning is Level six. Look at you. Just led me right to the promised land. [00:59:41] Speaker A: Okay, go. [00:59:43] Speaker C: So Level six. We call this the Sage Leader. Some Level six leaders, some examples. I don't know if that would qualify, but I. The first one that comes to mind. I don't know if this is a great example since history has uncovered a lot of things, but I would think of Gandhi. People can relate to that. That's kind of like a Level six type of leader. And it's. We always win. There is nothing to change. Nothing is wrong. All is well. I would liken it to A level six leader might pull up at a traffic light and out here in Denver, we are seeing more and more and more people say unhoused, I say homeless. You know, whatever. I don't. I don't know what. What the right word to say is anymore. But. But let's say there's someone with a sign that says, hey, anything helps. Right. Level 6 leaders will not feel bad for that person. There's zero judgment at level six. It's just. That's their station. That's where they are. That's what they do. There's nothing wrong with them. There's nothing for me to fix. I don't have to do anything. We can all coexist. It's very at peace. [01:00:57] Speaker B: You just gave me. I gotta pause on this. How this is hitting me. See if I can say it out loud. What's in my head. [01:01:05] Speaker C: Mm. [01:01:07] Speaker B: You. You just. I just finally understood how you're using the word judgment. [01:01:13] Speaker C: Okay. [01:01:14] Speaker B: And that is. I think most people would see the. The person with the sign and the dirty clothes and the haggard look and a sign that says anything helps. And we would either think that we feel sorry for them or we feel judgmental, meaning, oh, you should go get a job. You shouldn't, you know. [01:01:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:40] Speaker B: But in your framing of judgment, feeling sorry for them is also judgment is judgment. And I, That's. I just want to pause on that. That's a powerful. We are judging them. We're making an assumption about who they are and maybe even why or how they got there either way and what they're feeling and what they're going like we're making a judgment versus that's where they are in their lives. That's fascinating. And then very, very, very Gandhi. [01:02:16] Speaker C: Very Gandhi. Right? [01:02:17] Speaker B: Very Gandhi. Like, I guess not Mother Teresa. No, but Gandhi. [01:02:23] Speaker C: Yes. Monitor is more four or five. [01:02:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Interesting. Oh, that's interesting. Okay. [01:02:31] Speaker C: Like level six is. But also, here's the other thing about level six. Level six will roll their sleeves up and get in there. They want to be a part of whatever's going on. So say we run this non profit. We've been given a particular alley and our job is to beautify it. So people are out there with their paint buckets and their broom and they're, you know, this and that. And so as the Level 6 leader, I'm walking through and I just see the beauty of it and I want to be a part of it. And so I will get in there and contribute. I don't stay on top and direct. I am in it with. It's very With. [01:03:10] Speaker B: Okay. And then the seventh level is. The one that's not on the assess doesn't show up on the assessment sheet. What is that? [01:03:18] Speaker C: Yeah. So level seven is. What is winning and losing anyway? They don't exist. They're all illusions. Right. So in giving the analogies, level one is I lose. Right. Level two is I win, you lose. Level three is I win. But it's cool if you win too. [01:03:37] Speaker B: We win. Maybe. [01:03:39] Speaker C: Well, no, it's. I. It's. I'm first. If you win or don't win is irrelevant. [01:03:43] Speaker B: But I see, I see. [01:03:44] Speaker C: But I don't need you to. I don't need your downfall for me to function. And then four is you win. There is no I in four. Five is we all win or we don't play. Everybody's collective. Six is we always win. Right. And seven is winning and losing our illusions. [01:04:08] Speaker B: That's great. [01:04:09] Speaker C: And so it's just. It's a place where, when you're in seven, you're actually absent of here. Some people hit seven in a dream state. Some people can choose it through meditation and prayer. I've heard some people hit seven. Now listen, Patrick, I don't run unless someone's chasing me. Okay? Let's be clear. But there. There is a whole, you know, group of people who are runners. And I've heard runners say that sometimes they run and they just. They lose all space and time. That's. They probably hit level 7 at some place in their run, if that makes sense. [01:04:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:04:50] Speaker C: Okay. [01:04:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:51] Speaker C: And 7 is obviously zero judgment, right? Because. [01:04:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, 7. 7 would correlate with alchemical in the. In the action logics. [01:05:00] Speaker C: Yes. [01:05:00] Speaker B: Space. Fascinating. And you know, another. All these models, you know, they. They overlay with each other. Right. Nothing new under the sun, they say. But. No, I think of. Of sage leader when I. This is just what I think of. I don't know if it's right or not, but John Maxwell's leadership levels, he Talks about Level 1, people follow you because they have to. [01:05:24] Speaker C: Yes, It's. [01:05:25] Speaker B: It's an authority level. Level two, they follow you because they like you. Level three, they follow you because you have a track record of success. You know what you're doing. [01:05:35] Speaker A: Level. [01:05:35] Speaker B: I think level four is you have a track record for them. You've done something for them. And level five is they follow you because of who you are and what you stand for. [01:05:46] Speaker C: And that's it. [01:05:47] Speaker B: And, you know, it's not about. It's not about the position at all. It's not about the hierarchy at all at that. At that point. This is so good, Lana. I see. I knew we would go over the. We're just getting started. We could go a long time. But I'm not going to be sensitive to your time and to our listeners. I really want. Now more than ever, I want to encourage people go take this assessment, it's free. There's nothing, no obligation to anything. It will open you to some other opportunities if you want to dive deeper with Lana and her team. But just the assessment itself is worth the doing. Takes about 10 minutes. The link is on. You can find it on the, the. [01:06:32] Speaker C: Well, we, we're gonna have it on two places. So it's on the website. [01:06:36] Speaker B: It's on your website. [01:06:37] Speaker C: It's definitely there. But also I'm gonna give you a free download to share with all of your listeners, which is kind of a sum up of what the energy levels are. So if you were driving while you're listening, you know, it can kind of remind you of what we talked about. And there'll be a link on that document as well. [01:06:53] Speaker B: Don't read this while you're driving. [01:06:55] Speaker C: Don't read this. [01:06:58] Speaker B: I'm gonna stop. I gotta go back and edit that. She didn't say that. Ladies. [01:07:01] Speaker C: No, like if you're listening while you're driving, but you want to remember, then later you can download the document. Do not read while driving. [01:07:11] Speaker B: No, I got, I understood. Yeah, perfect. And we'll have those on our episode page as well. And, and yeah, just, just, you know, reach out to Lana if you think like this is the kind of thing that I could use or maybe our team could use. And there's enough of this to go around, so please let her know. Lana, thank you. There are two questions that I like to ask all my guests before I wrap an episode because just love the stories, get good perspective and get some good tidbits for myself and our listeners. And the first one is this. Who comes to mind for you as a leader? Past, present, someone you know, someone you've watched from a distance, someone in history, doesn't matter. A leader. That comes to mind for you as someone who has had profound impact on your leadership and how you think about leadership and why that person. [01:08:04] Speaker C: Okay, so her name is Linda Lenore. And I met her when I transferred from Salem College in Winston Salem, North Carolina to University of Maryland, College Park. Go Turkish. And Salem College was 462 women. I specifically wanted to go to a small private all women's college. And for financial reasons it just made more sense for me to transfer to an in state school back home. So I ended up in a school with close to 30,000 co eds, which was the opposite of what I was trying to accomplish. And so I was really down and kind of depressed and closed. I went to school, I went home. I didn't do much in between. Linda Lenore hired me in the library. Hornbake library. And I was tech support. Did I know anything about tech? No. But I was really smart and I figured it out. And she just did it to keep me on campus and to give me something to do. She. She was friends with my mom and they were trying to figure out how to help me. One day she says, lana, take a look at this list. It's this thick list of every single club and organization on the campus. She said, the only way you're going to make this work is you have to make this campus smaller. She said, look through this book and pick. Pick something and just go to their meeting. So I looked through the book and I'm like, okay, well, I'm black. I'm a business major. Sure, we'll do the Black Business Society. You know, that seems easy. And so I get there and there were four people in the room, Patrick. And three of them were on the executive board. And I was like, oh, my God, this is a top 25 business school. There's a huge black population here. What the heck, you know? So I ran for president and I won. And it changed the trajectory of my leadership, my experience on the campus. I mean, it led to the. So many things. So I think about Linda, who just saw me and just kind of slid something my way and said, hey, here's what you got to do to make this work. [01:10:17] Speaker B: Make the campus smaller. What a powerful thing. And she didn't say, go join this one. No, she just said, you need. You're gonna need to get connected somewhere. What a great. [01:10:27] Speaker C: Pick one. [01:10:27] Speaker B: That's a great story. Yeah, that's a great story. Wow. [01:10:31] Speaker C: She has definitely influenced my leadership. [01:10:34] Speaker B: Shout out to Linda the last question I have for you. You're at the top of a mountain, you have a megaphone, and all the leaders of the world are at the base of this mountain. And they're there to hear 15 seconds of what you have to say about leadership. What are you telling all the leaders of the world is the most important thing to keep in mind as they lead that 15 second, you know, Lana, Halimirium sound bite on leadership. What is that? [01:11:04] Speaker C: Okay, I would say two things. First, one is it's not about you. The second thing I would say is whatever got you here is not going to get you there. So who do you have to become? [01:11:23] Speaker B: Wow. Pausing that. There's a coaching question for you. Everybody. Who do you need to become? And that's good. What got you here won't get you there. We know that yeah, that is for sure. Team standup dot com. Make sure you get there. Also make sure you look at the episode page here. We'll have the link to that website and also to the assessment and the tool that goes with it. Thanks for joining us. Listening, Lana. Thank you. Thanks for joining us. [01:11:55] Speaker C: Thank you so much. This was so fun. [01:11:57] Speaker B: This is great. Maybe we'll do a part two one day. [01:11:59] Speaker C: Let's do it. [01:12:00] Speaker B: All right, everybody, lead on.