Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to the Leadership window podcast with Dr. Patrick Jenks. Each week through a social sector lens, Patrick interviews leaders and experts and puts us in touch with trends and tips for leading effectively. Patrick is a board certified executive coach, a member of the Forbes Coaches Council, a best selling author, award winning photographer and a professional speaker.
And now, here's Dr. Patrick Jenks.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: See what's going on? What's most important to me right now is that my beloved St. Louis Cardinals are on a slide. They're not doing all that well, better than expected at the beginning of the year. But yeah, they're in rebuild mode. So it's not been a, it's not been a great July. If I view things through the lens of how are the Cardinals doing? But if I view things through the lens on how the leader's perspective is doing, how the leaders I'm coaching are doing, how life is doing, boy, it's grand. It's hot, but it's grand. And I'm excited about our show today. This is episode 157 of the Leadership Window. Glad you're along. Our guest today is Marcia Beckner and she's coming to us from Denver, Colorado. She is a nonprofit CEO, mentor and culture strategist who works with social impact and nonprofit organizations much like we do here at the Leaders Perspective. She also works with a lot of healthcare sector clients and she's just trying to help these mission driven leaders and their organizations build healthy inclusive cultures and doing so without burning out. And that's quite a balancing act.
So we share a lot of space and because we do a lot of this work too, we do culture mapping and we talk about the definition of culture. And that's why when I connected with Marcia, I said, oh, I can't wait to have a coffee conversation and let the world listen into this one.
She has a signature framework. Her company is Culture Culture Cares. Go to culturecares.com if you want to learn more. We'll have the link on our show page as well. We're going to talk a little bit about her framework for this Culture Cares. This, this intersection between healthy culture and individual health and care and burning out and all those things called the CARES model. It's an acronym and we're going to have her walk through that with us and we're just going to talk a little bit about what's going on, what she's doing. Her personal story, by the way, has so much to do as, as it often does, has so much to do with where she is and what she's doing right now, so this comes from the crucible of living it and learning some things about herself in the world.
So we'll have time to hear all of that and the background, and I'm just excited about it.
She's. She does have.
She does have a book. We'll talk about that. She's got another book coming out that will also talk about.
So that's it. I'm gonna. Marsha, welcome to the show. And I. What I always like to do here is give you the opportunity to clean up my mess here. As I introduced you. What. What is it I missed that you really want the world to know about, But I'm glad you're here.
[00:03:20] Speaker C: Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. And I don't think you made a mess at all. I think you really got it right. I'm very impressed.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: All right, well, I. I'm gonna let you kind of.
Where would you want to start? That gives us context for the conversation. I mentioned your personal story, your first book, this work you're doing, helping nonprofits blend culture, self care, you know, healthy organizations. Where does this passion, where does this drive? Where does this mission come from?
[00:03:52] Speaker C: Yeah, well, my mission today is that nonprofit leaders feel confident in building healthy, inclusive, empowering cultures where all staff can thrive, including the leadership. And so I know that's a pretty lofty vision based on probably what we're all seeing in the sector right now, which is massive amounts of burnout, overwhelm, stress, funding, you know, funding cuts and layoffs. And my perspective is that as a leader, you can only really control yourself and your own story that you tell yourself about what's happening in the world and what appear to be very overwhelming challenges. But I think if we can just kind of start and center and ground ourselves in what actually. What we actually are responsible for and what we can do as an individual, that's the best starting place. And I've been in this world for about almost 20 years now. I started a nonprofit cancer nonprofit back in 2007, and I started it because I'd been diagnosed with ovarian cancer in my 20s and really struggled with keeping my friends and family up to date with what was going on throughout my treatment process and decided that I wanted to start, like, a digital community.
And so this was kind of before, like, Facebook and a lot of the social media channels that we know, but it kind of operated that way. It was called my Lifeline Cancer Foundation.
And I just had this idea that I wanted to provide a private space for friends and family and their cancer patients to connect with each other and so that the patient and the family would get the help that they need, whether it be practical support through. We had a helping calendar where you could post your.
Your visiting hours, or when meals were needed, you could ask for, you know, financial support, if necessary, help with the kids. You know, you could really kind of organize and coordinate the rest of your life around your treatment process with the help of your friends and family. And so, so my lifeline was kind of started growing. I learned how to like, build a board from scratch and build a staff from scratch. And that's where I really learned, you know, what leadership was about.
And over the next 10 years, we grew to a point where we merged into a global network called the cancer support community back in 2018.
I stayed on with their leadership team through the first year of COVID through the end of 2020.
And what I recognized was a growing passion in me that when I looked at all of our partner organizations and healthcare and patient advocacy and other sectors of nonprofit, I just saw people were just, you know, overwhelmed and stressed and they were doing like, they came to this work with a mission to help people, and then they just got like sucked dry from, you know, the. The overwhelming demands of what it takes to solve society's biggest problems. Which is what. Which is what I believe our sector does best.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: You said something a moment ago that really caught my attention.
You said something about building. I didn't write it down. Building a healthy, inclusive culture where everyone thrives, including the leader.
Yeah, that stood out to me because particularly in this nonprofit space, our executive directors are heroes. Right. And they consider themselves as being the person who's supposed to stand in the gap for the people and be the mission bearer and the flag bearer and the warrior and all of that. And it's great. They should, but. But they often say we want people to thrive, but often at self sacrifice, which is actually. Which is actually detrimental. In fact, when we do a lot of the.
We do. One of the assessments we use in our work is a motivator's assessment.
And one of the. One of the words, when a lot of the people that we coach are highly motivated by altruism and not as motivated by economic factors or even personal power or even sometimes aesthetics. But what can happen is that altruism can be such a high motivator that it comes at a self sacrifice and then it's. It's point of diminishing returns. You're actually working against what you're trying to do.
So I just love that you said that, that everyone needs to thrive, including the leader. Not at the expense of the thriving of the leader. I love that you're starting with self.
That was another thing that stood out. Let's start with me. If I can be the leader I need to be and the person I need to be and be fulfilled and care, then I'm going to be a better. We use the, the airplane, you know, put the mask on yourself first. We use that analogy, you know, long since been become cliche and trite, but it's real and that's, that comes out strong.
What you're saying here about your work.
[00:09:11] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I think because when it's hard to focus on the self sometimes because you've joined this mission and this sector which is all about caring about other people, so it almost feels like it goes against the grain.
But if you're a leader and you're not and you're working 60 hours a week and you're doing emails and sending messages on the weekends and telling your staff, I really want you to be, you know, have work life balance. And you can't have both. Like they're not, it's. They're going to look at what you're doing and how you're modeling work life balance and they will follow suit from there, but it doesn't give them permission. Even though your words may say work life balance, it doesn't give them permission if they see that you're burning the candle at both ends. And so yeah, part of my mission is you can have it all. Like you can work for a cause that you care about and you can have a healthy, balanced life outside of work.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: I see some of the, I see some of what you just described. I also see some in the opposite direction where the leader has such a high work ethic.
And I tell them all the time, no one's going to care as much as you care. I mean these, these executive directors, they've got, there's more at stake for their careers, their professions. They feel the weight of the world on their shoulders and they're often frustrated that the people that they're lead meeting don't have the same work ethic as they do.
And I have to ask them. So you want your people to wake up and the first thing they do is check their email and you know, at six o' clock in the morning and then they're, they're working and they're working, they're getting there before everybody and they're leaving after everybody and they're working over the weekends and you know, they're getting burned out. That's what you're looking for, that's what you want.
So it is, it's, it's across the culture, it's across the organization where you have to build that culture. And to your point, you have to start by modeling it.
[00:11:08] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's where like generational differences come in too. Because having, you know, like decades of work experience is different than just a couple of years out of college or a few years.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:22] Speaker C: In, you know, into your career and to just. And I see a lot of frustration out there with leaders who are like, why don't they seem to care as much? Why do they need, you know, time off?
You know, because they, they probably don't care as much yet. Maybe. I mean, they may care about the cause, but as far as like getting everything done all the time, there's a disconnect there that needs, or a gap there that needs to be, you know, communicated about and setting like really realistic expectations while also challenging people to stretch. So it is a balancing act. There's no perfect way to do it.
[00:12:08] Speaker B: I can hear some of my coaches now saying, Marcia, that all sounds so pretty and so good, but you don't understand what's going on in our organization. Our funding has been cut and reduced.
We have half the staff we need to do double the work we're doing, but we're still somehow getting all or most of it done.
But, you know, we just don't have a choice. I mean, you just gotta get up and put your head down and you just gotta go.
What's your response to that?
[00:12:43] Speaker C: My response is I want to share a story about a client of mine here who just ran an $8.5 million capital campaign while working 40 hours a week.
It was like a multi year campaign. She took two parental leaves, had two babies. It just came out of it just like still loving her job, having a team that backs her up. Her staff stepped up when she was on maternity leave during this capital campaign and they succeeded in raising the money that they needed to while having a work life balance. So I want to say that it is a choice that it is possible. And what she would say is if you're working more than a 40 hour work, you're working 60, 50 hours, you have too much on your plate and you've either got to reduce some things or, or distribute them differently, but there is a choice. Like there you have the highest, if you're the CEO or executive director specifically, which is who I work with, because they really do have the highest influence over the culture and over the workloads and how things get done.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: So what did she do differently in her behaviors? I mean, it's one thing to say, well, she limited her work to 40 hours a week.
One of the things that my coaches hear me say a lot is I don't use the term work life balance.
[00:14:11] Speaker C: Oh, okay. Because tell me more.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: Well, work is a part of our life. To say work life balance implies that work and life are two completely separate things and they're not. Work is a part of our life.
So to me, it's just balance, period.
Right. But that semantics to some degree, but it's just kind of one of the things we talk about. The other term I don't use is time management, because from our perspective, pardon the pun, is you can't manage time. Think about it. We can't add a 25th hour in any day that we want. We have the same. We're all operating into the same window of time. It can't be managed. It can't be found. It can't be created.
It can. It just is what it is. What we can manage is our energy, our bandwidth and what we give bandwidth to.
So let's take this 40 hour work week that you're this great story, by the way. And yes, it is. It is possible.
The question then I ask, and that a lot of our people would ask, is, what's she doing differently? How is she.
How is she arranging or organizing her energy and her bandwidth to still do those things that funders are requiring her to do, her board's requiring her to do? She knows her clients need from her and her staff.
What's she doing differently?
[00:15:38] Speaker C: She's saying no a lot more than most people. She's being very strategic about her priorities.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: That's good.
That's really simple. Again, easy to say, but. It is easy to say, but it is pretty simple, right? Say no more. Say no more.
[00:15:53] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: We're loathe to say that in the sector.
[00:15:57] Speaker C: I know we are, even to new
[00:15:59] Speaker B: grant opportunities like, oh, there's a great opportunity, let's do it. Maybe let's not.
We do a lot of strategic planning and staff teams will tell us all the time, well, this is great. We're saying we want to do A, B and C.
Does that mean we're not going to do D, E and F anymore? Because that's taken all the bandwidth we have now. We can't just keep adding things on.
And so, yeah, strategy is a trade off.
You have to know what to say no to.
[00:16:25] Speaker C: Yeah. And another thing about energy management, which I totally agree with you about, is that it's really understanding what energizes you and what drains you.
Because if you're kind of working in the wrong projects, the wrong tasks for aligned with your motivators. Since you were talking about motivators, you really want to align. The thing with the high altruism motivators that we're working with in the non profit world is that they will tend to go above and beyond just because they like naturally love to do that and feel good. But it's hard to pull back on that to the, let's say, you know, kind of the boundary of Monday through Friday. If, you know, if it's not healthcare, obviously healthcare, everyone has different hours on based on who you're serving, but let's just say whatever the five days a week are, eight hours a day. And of course there's seasons, maybe fundraiser season where you're working more, but then make, just make sure that there's a counterbalance to restore your energy on the other end of your busy season and kind of work with your team to plan out your yearly calendar with those cycles in mind, whether it's grant season, then you've got to work a little bit more than 40 hours. Right. Just make sure there's restoration for energy on the other side so you can do it again next time.
[00:17:47] Speaker B: I love that. And it's the one, one nuance I might add to it is that it's not just the leisurely stuff that can recharge your energy, it can be the work.
You know, some of my work is draining much of my work, most of my work is actually filling. So I'm, I'm, I am, I tell people my energy is circular because while, while so many of my activities consume energy at the same time, it's also giving me energy back because I get energized by my work. So if that's the case, great. It's the stuff we're not energized by, it's the draining stuff that we're not replacing and replenishing. So, you know, to me, energy, energy replenishing doesn't just mean, you know, going on a cruise or going to the lake for a week or the beach. It's, it can be in the work and how you arrange work, particularly if you have a team.
And this is what we say in motivational. The whole purpose of the assessment is not just so you know, what motivates you because you already know that.
The purpose of the assessment is to understand that our team each has. Our team members each have a motivation. And if we can help them plug into the places in the work that fulfill that motivation, that's energy giving. So it doesn't have to be the leisure, does it? To replenish the energy.
[00:19:13] Speaker C: No, I know. I 100% agree with you.
I love my work. Like, it really energizes me. Not every piece. I don't like all the bookkeeping stuff you have to do. But.
But talking I always, like, I learned really early on in my early. Like in college. I don't know where I came up with this, but I'm like, what do I love to, like, do or talk about all day long? I'm going to go into that field.
So I loved. I was really interested in travel, so I became a flight attendant, like, right after college, for a few years.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: That's it.
[00:19:46] Speaker C: And then after a few years, the Internet was booming. The Internet. It was the Internet whatever bubble. No, before the. It was the Internet bubble. Before the bus, I was fascinated with technology. So I decided to go into technology sales and just like, immerse myself in that full time. And then, you know, after the cancer experience, I was like, I gotta help cancer patients all day, every day, you know? And then now, since 2020, since I started Culture Cares, I'm like, I just want to talk about helping leaders stop personally sacrificing themselves for the mission.
So it. It's like, that's so energizing. So I love the beach as well, and I could spend a lot of time there, but that's not realistic yet.
Yeah, so I think it's all important.
But, yeah, most important is on a daily basis what energizes you and do more of that.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: So culture Cares. Let's break that down into its two components, culture and cares.
What do you mean when you say culture?
[00:20:53] Speaker C: My favorite definition of culture is chemistry.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: Ooh, I haven't heard that one.
[00:21:00] Speaker C: Yeah, one of my clients said that, and I was like, oh, it's the chemistry between you and your team members, your board, your volunteers, your donors. Like, what's the. Do you have chemistry? Do you like being around each other? Do you make each other better?
Do you strengthen? Do you lean on each other's strengths and talents and just ask yourself that question.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: I like that. I have to give that some more thought. Chemistry. Thanks for. Thanks for adding to my. I think there's a number of definitions, missions of organizational culture. You know, we. We say it all the time. People hear the term and they're like, man, that's a nebulous. Sounds like something in a, you know, academia culture. What is that?
And so when I was going through my, my doctoral in organizational leadership, we studied culture and the definition we settled on and used was the way we do things around here.
So, so you know, people talk about, well, I don't know, I don't know about organizational culture, but I know we don't pay well. That's culture.
I don't know much about culture, but I know we have fun at our, in our. It's a fun place to work. It's a family, feels like a family.
They're just, they're describing culture. They wouldn't, they might not say it's culture, but we all feel it, we all experience, experience it, we all contribute to it.
And chemistry is a great, great way to look at that because you can, I'm sitting here thinking, can I apply that to all the different scenarios of culture mapping that we do? So we do. How does this organization about making decisions? What's the process for that? Well, that can be chemistry, you know, does, does do two or three people get in a closed door, make all the decisions and not tell anybody till it's after the fact?
That's a lack of chemistry somewhere.
[00:22:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:53] Speaker B: So I love that definition.
So, so how do you, how do you help organizations grasp that definition practically?
[00:23:04] Speaker C: Yeah, that's where CARES comes in.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: There we go.
[00:23:07] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah. Culture sounds nebulous like you said.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:12] Speaker C: And ambiguous and like a cloud, like you can't get your arms around it. And CARES puts a structure, a process and a system to building a healthy culture. So CARES is an acronym for commitment, appreciation, respect, engagement and safety.
And when I modeled it out, I put it like a pyramid.
Like Maslow's hierarchy of needs where you start at the base and you build up.
So Maslow's hierarchy of needs is the science of human motivation.
And CARES is a way for our non profit leaders to think about what people really want when they come to work. Yes, sure, pay, yes, please pay fairly. Whatever you can do there. That's also, that's a baseline that actually comes with the S. So the S is the bottom of the period, the, the pyramid, the foundation of your house, let's say. And S could stand for security, which is job security, financial security, physical safety, psychological safety. It's S is like everything at the base that are we as humans need before we can level up to reach our maximum potential.
So, and I talk a lot. I educate a lot about psychological safety. It still feels like an ambiguous term, but it's got a very clear definition.
It is your ability to speak up, to admit that you made a mistake, to fail, all without fear of shame or retribution.
So that's the academic definition. And can it be measured?
Yes, it can be measured with seven validated measurements. And I offer the CARES assessment to my clients and we have those seven measurements in there.
And then once you know what psychological safety is and how to strengthen it, you can level up to the E it cares, which is engagement or a culture of learning. And research shows that people go to work and they want to learn and master and be challenged. And most people, you know, lots of, hopefully the people you're hiring want all of those things. They're motivated to learn, to grow.
And when they're growing, you're growing as an organization. And then we level up to respect, which is a culture of inclusion, which is where I put all the DEI initiatives. Diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging, empowerment, those things. And then we level up to the A, which is appreciation or a culture of connection.
And then at the peak is the result.
You get to the peak of the mountain, you get commitment. And commitment is when people are accountable for their. For their part and helping others.
They're loyal to you, to your team and your organization.
They are. You are retaining your top talent and you really, it's really a competitive advantage if you can systematically put in an operating system that applies the CARES model and it's very adaptable to your mission and your vision. It's really about turning your mission for your external community inward towards your staff and your board.
[00:26:31] Speaker B: What I love about this is so when I saw cares, I had not seen the visual for it. The pyramid and the description, the likeness to the Maslow's hierarchy is apt because it is a hierarchy. What this is saying is if, if you're worried about, I'm not getting the engagement that I need from my people, it hasn't come online yet because potentially. Because you haven't cleared the safety hurdle yet.
[00:27:03] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: And you're not going to get to the respect level.
That's not going to come online until the engagement. These are dependent on each other.
[00:27:11] Speaker C: Yes, yes.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: And I really like that they come. They have to come online. So it's a great diagnostic tool to say, all right, where in the culture is the bottleneck for us? Yeah, because if we're trying to go, man, I'm trying to get all this appreciation for, you know, this, that and the other, it's like, you haven't even got safety yet. You haven't invited them to engage. You haven't created opportunities for engagement. You're not going to get to valuing and appreciating if you haven't met this piece yet. So I just want to pause on that a minute. I love the visual.
I love a good framework anyway, so.
Yeah, yeah, that's great. Do I have it right? I mean, am I saying all that?
[00:27:48] Speaker C: Yeah, I love how you said it. I've actually never said it like that. Like it hasn't come online yet. Like it's kind of thinking about a pyramid that's in the dark and you just like light up each floor once at a time.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: Ooh, yeah, I like that. I like that.
[00:28:01] Speaker C: And I think it's so. Culture is so powerful for non profits because we cannot afford to pay everybody top rate.
But people don't just want a paycheck. Most people want to reach their full potential. And you can do this with a system or a process that you can lean into that's data driven, like cares. And you can, you can give people what they want. You can improve the chemistry on your team that allows you to achieve your mission, to get more donations. Donors can smell a dysfunctional culture a mile away.
[00:28:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:38] Speaker C: If you are not, if your team is talking bad about each other or a donor walks in, or volunteer walks in and your team looks depressed or disconnected, they're. They're not going to want to be there. And we really need our donors and volunteers to succeed as well as our internal staff to be ambassadors for the organization by like embracing that. They are. Everybody's a contributor to a healthy culture. It's not just the leader's job. It's the leader's job to set the tone. That and the quality standard for a high healthy, like a healthy, empowering culture. They set the standard. And then you gotta hold everyone to that standard. If there's like bad attitudes, toxic relationships there, you're just gonna be pulled down to the lowest denominator.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: You are. And that is an area that is so difficult for many leaders to navigate because, you know, if you've got a set of KPIs that you're consistently not reaching well, and we have a performance issue. And I can easily, you know, go through steps to discipline you, grow you, or, you know, exit you.
People. Leaders have a hard time dealing with the, these, these attitudes that are passively disengaged at best, actively disengaged at worst.
And how do you, how do, what do you do That's. That's one of the big questions. So many of our leaders struggle is, what do I do? I can't fire them. You know, maybe they're in a protected class and I'm scared to do anything. Or maybe, maybe they're.
They're great talent. We don't want to lose them, but they're starting to marginalize themselves because their team doesn't respect them for what they're. What they're. How they're showing up. So leaders have a hard time practically. I mean, just from a tactical standpoint. What. What are my options as a leader? How do I. When do I coach? When do I manage? When do I go to hr?
You know, how do I navigate that?
[00:30:43] Speaker C: I think that's where, like, an external sounding board is so important from a coach or a mentor and HR expert or an attorney. But. Well, all I know is that holding on to toxic parts of the business are, like, causing no bueno.
Yeah, like, you've got it. Like, you. It's your responsibility. You're accountable for a healthy culture, a healthy team that has strong chemistry together and that helps each other. I mean, without. That's a lack of psychological safety. If people don't feel like safe because someone is. I can't remember your word that you use, but kind of taking everybody down.
That's where I really help my clients and help them understand that they're not a bad leader if they can't coach them up. You've got to try, but you. Setting up a performance improvement plan is important.
And working with, you know, an HR expert slash attorney to how can I move this person out? One of my favorite, like, idioms from Disney is they say we help you find your magic somewhere else. Just because they're not happy where they are, it doesn't mean they can't be happy somewhere else. So also thinking it's not that they're miserable too. Like, how can this be a win, win, win, so that you can get some really, like, healthy team members that support you.
[00:32:12] Speaker B: Yeah. I. I would like to open up a brief conversation with you about psychological safety.
That term, of course, we know. We look to Amy Edmondson and Harvard, you know, for a lot of the academic. A lot of the framing behind that, and it's solid stuff.
I came across an article not too long ago from Amy.
I guess it was in the Harvard Business Review, and it was kind of a. Hey, everyone. I think there's a lot of misunderstand. I think. I think this is being misunderstood. Let me clarify some things about Psychological safety. It is not a guarantee.
Right. It is not the leader saying you can say whatever you want and do it. And I loved the, the qualifying article that she put out there, but what I was going to say is that a term that I personally prefer. I don't, I don't have a big issue with the term psychological safety. It's obviously a very respected framework.
The challenge I have with the term is that it does imply that the leader has this responsibility to make you feel safe.
It's like, so you're counting on me for your feelings, right?
[00:33:19] Speaker C: Term.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: We came to this term through some of the work with Dr. Peter Hawkins and systemic team coaching, we came to the term psychological maturity, which is more to imply that I've got a responsibility even if I'm not the boss.
I have a contribution to the psychological maturity of the organization. Because not only do I not want to feel there's going to be some consequence if I speak up, but I also have to have the bravery to speak up and I have to have the skill set to do it artfully and respectfully and authentically and in a way that creates value.
And if I can do that, I'm adding to the psychological safety versus the, the, the, I think the misunderstanding, the surface understanding so many people have about the term psychological safety. So that's just a quick take from me on it. Would love your reaction or response to it in any direction.
[00:34:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I know it is such a tricky two words to put together and to put the onus on the leader that they have to, like you have to provide psychological safety. It is 100% everyone's own responsibility, their own feelings.
And you can, you know, say something that may not be, you know, is not going to land well and that person's not going to feel good about it because maybe they have been having some performance issues and you need to talk to them about it. But it's also important to know what psychological safety in the academic term isn't. It's not about being nice, it's not about consensus. It's not about lowering standards.
It's about really raising the standards for everybody to create a safe space for everybody else. It's not just me to you, it's you to me and us to us.
So it, it's like so important to talk about with a team and maybe have a facilitator in there that, that can help, you know, guide the conversation.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: Well, I think those assessments are important too ask. Asking them the right questions. Yeah, we do, for example, we'll do A live poll in the room on the screen anonymously and on senior leadership teams, mid level management teams. And the questions we ask, when you do it anonymously, the responses you get are pretty eye opening for the team to go, wow, yeah. Really? Someone, someone in the room feels like that.
[00:35:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:46] Speaker B: You know, who knew?
[00:35:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:48] Speaker B: And so the, but the questions we ask are important. Marshall Goldsmith says this a lot about the employee engagement surveys that we do where he says we, we always ask people to rate someone else.
Right. Did, did someone else do their job right? Does my supervisor do their best to foster a positive relationship with me? My supervisor set meaningful goals for me. Do my co workers adapt to change?
You know, and he said wrong questions. You know, it's am I doing my best?
[00:36:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: To facilitate a productive relationship with my supervisor. Am I doing my best, set goals for myself and get mutual agreement from others, including my super. Am I doing my best to adapt to change? How do I do all this stuff?
And that's kind of the, that's been my take on the psychological safety thing. Instead of saying, well, does my boss create a psychologically safe environment? The question is, yeah, do I contribute to a psychologically safe environment?
[00:36:46] Speaker C: That's the right question. I love that question.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: I just, I always, when anytime I hear that term, I always think it's good to pause on it and say what it is and what it isn't. And you actually said it, you actually said it better than I did when you talked about what it is and what it isn't, corporately or academically. So anyway, I didn't mean to go down a rabbit hole, but that's one of those terms we throw around a lot.
Psychological safety.
[00:37:08] Speaker C: Right. The research says it's the number one indicator of high performance, innovation and inclusion. So that's why it's such an important thing to go like down a rabbit hole about because it impacts everything that you're trying to achieve.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: Well, defining is important.
You know, it's like you're working in dei. B.
One of the first things when that, you know, when DEI became, you know, really, really elevated is that the definitions were all over the place, if there even were any.
What do we mean by equity?
Why are we resistant to the term equity? Why are we, why do we love it? What does it mean in our work? What does the data tell us is the, is the opportunity for us to do better in any of these areas? So I'm really big on defining.
It's like, wow, we want high employee engagement. And what is that?
What is, you know, we want systems change. And what is that? Yeah, these terms we use, we don't pause and go, wait, what's the definition of that and how does it apply to my business, my organization, my team, my culture, my values?
[00:38:16] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm facilitating a team workshop tomorrow with a whole staff, team and we're going to be talking about what do each of those cares like within each cares level.
We're going to adapt it to their values and we're going to talk about what does that look like on a day to day basis?
[00:38:32] Speaker B: What does commitment look like to you? How do you know it when you see it? You know, how do you. Yeah, I love it. I love that.
And you're so just help me on this. I don't.
You have a cares.
So you mentioned working, working with a whole tap, our whole staff. You've got an actual program. It's like a months long.
Is it like cohort based? Is it individual, team based? You've got a, what do you call it? The accelerator. The cares accelerator. I'd love to tell me more about what that looks like.
[00:39:05] Speaker C: Yeah. So the Culture Cares accelerator is a five month program where I work one on one with a executive director or CEO. And then we also, we start, there's like a three phase process over the five months.
So we start by pausing and we work on the leader. Leaders like energy management like you were talking about, identifying their biggest strengths, their communication styles, their preferences, their motivators and just really centering on their own health and well being and making a plan for that. Because usually when we first start working together there's a lot of just like spinning in circles and second, you know, second guessing every word that comes out of their mouth and just that feeling of like spinning and self doubt and lack of confidence. So we work on that first and then the second thing is we move into team health. So first it starts with individual health, then team health. And that's where we do the Culture Cares listening tour which is our assessment and possibly a few interviews if they want, one on one with some leaders. And then we do a visioning session with the whole team and we create a cares roadmap which is to solve the problem that people aren't tired of surveys, they're tired of lack of action after surveys.
[00:40:22] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:40:23] Speaker C: So that's why the cares roadmap is such the more important piece than even the assessment. Like we've got to put an action plan together and then who's responsible for what and really like help them Lead forward by focusing on culture as an organizational health initiative.
And then what that does is it helps the leaders unify their teams, get their leadership teams backing them up, building morale, building trust, and all the things that improve the chemistry between the teams so that they're not spinning their wheels on employees crying in their office or constant emotional needs.
They're getting to the root cause of what are those emotional needs at work? They may still have personal issues, but of course we all do. But professionally in the workplace, you can really systematically kind of understand the root causes behind the staff drama that's happening or the toxic dynamics and put together a plan that can solve for that permanently. And so that's what the five month container does. I also do do. I'm creating a new CEO, Ed Mastermind, that's in the fall and it starts September 16th.
So that will be a small group cohort of up to 10. We're almost sold out. But up to 10 executive directors, that's going to be Denver focused because we'll have some in person meetings. I'll probably do more virtual next year, but I'm starting with like some in person because, you know, executive directors, it is just, it feels like an island sometimes. Like everyone's venting to you, but who can you vent to?
So that's what this group will solve for.
[00:42:07] Speaker B: I love the in person stuff. I. Yeah, I've.
[00:42:11] Speaker C: I want to be in person.
[00:42:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And especially for something like that. When you talk about culture, I'm coaching, I'm coaching a few teams that are all, they're all virtual because they're all over the country.
[00:42:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:25] Speaker B: Like, what does that culture look like? How do you, how do you foster a healthy culture where there's connection and, you know, all the things you talk about, respect and appreciation and commitment when it's all virtual. And that's a whole, that's a whole different challenge than regular culture. It's just the in person stuff. So.
[00:42:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:48] Speaker B: And anytime I have the option to do in person or virtual, it's, boy, let's do everything we can to make it in person.
[00:42:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: So I, I appreciate that. I, I want to again, reiterate. I imagine that for the, the cohort you're talking about is that, Is there information on that on your website?
[00:43:06] Speaker C: Yeah, that's@culture cares.com mastermind.
[00:43:09] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah.
There might be people that want to know more about that. Yeah.
Let's wind this down, Marcia. There are two questions I like to ask all my guests at the end of the program because I just Love the stories I get.
And the first one is who comes to mind for you as a leader?
Could be someone, you know, could be someone from history that you never met, but a leader that has had the most profound impact or influence on your view of leadership. And why?
[00:43:44] Speaker C: Well, mine was a real life person. He's passed away a couple years ago, unfortunately. But I was so lucky to find a mentor. When I first started in my nonprofit, I did not know what I was doing. I was the board president. I was the executive director. Director. A year in, I learned, oh, that shouldn't be one person.
I'm like, okay, I will be searching for a board president then. And found a great board president that was an oncologist. And that really helped us grow our organization is just learning, like, what to do, what not to do. Kind of the nuts and bolts, but also the different people, personality issues that happen when you're building a team.
His name is Rich Mail. And I, you know, we shared an office together, and he had been a community organizer, amazing human for 40 years. So he was, you know, much older than me and experienced and generous and just really, like, shared all these nuggets with me that I would never have read in a book, you know, that's why, that's why I'm a mentor now. Like, maybe I'm almost his age now when I met him, you know, Now I'm almost 20 years into this work, and now I just want to be a mentor like he was to me and for, for others that are either new or just not new, but struggling and feeling stuck.
So, so Rich Mail was my person.
[00:45:06] Speaker B: What a great tribute. And it says it. It again reinforces why you do what you do today. Like, there's personal value in this.
That's, that's really great.
Last question.
You're at the top of a mountain, and all the leaders of the world are at the base of the mountain and you've got a giant megaphone to talk to them. And you have 15 seconds to tell all the leaders of the world what you believe to be the most important thing for them all to keep in mind as they lead.
It's that 15 second Marsha Beckner soundbite on leadership. What are you saying?
[00:45:45] Speaker C: Well, from the top of the Charis pyramid, I would say if you're struggling with people being committed and loyal and staying and being accountable, look at the four levels below you and see where the holes may be.
[00:45:58] Speaker B: I love it. And go down each level until you find it.
[00:46:02] Speaker C: Yes.
Start with safety, then engagement, then respect and then appreciation and something may be. There may be a crack in the floor of one of those and find it and fix it for good.
[00:46:14] Speaker B: Such a great framework. And again, I love those kinds of things. People who know me well, Marsha, by the way, know that my favorite number is 5.
I have a whole. I've got a. I've got a video somewhere on my YouTube channel about why, why I use the number five, the five point plan and the models of five and things like that. There's a mathematical magic to the number five.
But I love that you're. I love that your model has five components to it, for what that's worth.
Yeah, this is really good, Marcia. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your energy and reminding us all that it starts with us. Before we can get to the health of the team and the mission and the people we serve, we have to make sure we're.
We're starting with ourselves. Thank you for that.
[00:46:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you, Patrick.
[00:46:59] Speaker B: Folks, our show has risen to number two in Feedspot's ranking of the top 20 podcasts in the nonprofit leadership space.
And for that, I thank you. We've got episodes now. We've got tens of thousands of listeners to each episode that we're putting out there right now. So thank you for supporting it. Thank you for listening. I hope you give us a review, share it with others, and in the meantime, lead on.
Ra.
