Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to the Leadership window podcast with Dr. Patrick Jenks. Each week through a social sector lens, Patrick interviews leaders and experts and puts us in touch with trends and tips for leading effectively. Patrick is a board certified executive coach, a member of the Forbes Coaches Council, a best selling author, award winning photographer and a professional speaker.
And now, here's Dr. Patrick Jenks.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Hello everyone. Episode 142.
[00:00:34] Speaker C: Here we are.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Glad you are along.
I always look forward to my guest today. This is, I don't know, I meant to go back and count four or five times maybe on the show.
Ron Harvey is my guest today. He is a really good friend, great peer, a mentor of mine in the work of coaching and consulting and just relating to people. One of the things that I've learned with Ron and through Ron and from Ron is just the importance of a relationship. It's probably his number one tenet that he talks about all the time. And he does more than just talk about it, he lives it. Ron is co founder and chief operating officer at Global Core Strategies and Consulting. I always have to slow down when I say that.
And he's based here in my hometown of Columbia, South Carolina. But he's all over the place, just like I am. And this is just where he calls home. And so serendipitously that means that he can actually come over into the studio with me. So this isn't done over zoom or telephone. You get the best audio quality you get. He and I are truly just face to face having a conversation. We always make our conversations pretty impromptu.
I have a list of questions that I've prepared for Ron. I don't give them to him in advance. I want his off the cuff thoughts and what the way this works is. I bring up questions to Ron that I am finding are coming up fairly consistently in my coaching work. So as I coach, clients around the country have these different challenges and issues that come up. It might not surprise you to know that many of the things that one coachee is experiencing or being challenged with, a lot of other leaders are being challenged with the very same things.
And so when they come up like this and I hear patterns and themes arise, I like to sort of capture them and collect them.
And then I bring Ron questions on the show and he has to give expert advice on the spot as to what he would do, what he would tell the coachee.
I stay in question mode and I lean on Ron to give the answers because he's the smart one in the room.
So, so that's what we do. And I've got Five questions for you today, Ron.
[00:03:07] Speaker D: Yes, I'm ready.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: Five and, and then you get to ask me a question if you want. We haven't ever done that. I don't think you've ever asked me questions, but you can do that.
Just remember, I have. Mine are the hands that are on the controls.
So, man, thanks for. Thanks for always coming over and carving out time for us. I know you're extremely busy, you've got so many moving parts and yet to carve out the time and drive across town.
Come spend time with me. I do. I really do always appreciate it, Ron. I know our listeners do.
[00:03:40] Speaker D: Yeah, it's. It's fun. It's always, you know, often as Patrick may feel like he. He's doing a favor for me and it's good for. For him. It's good for me as well because of the friendship and the partnerships that you create.
So thank you for always having me and having me on the show more than once. Which means that I'm gonna keep doing the. Doing what you asked me to do and I'll probably get invited back some more. So I enjoy it as much as you do.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: You'll keep getting. You're my. You are the only regular guest y. A regular occurring guest. Now. I've had others that have been on two times. I don't know that I've had anybody else on three times. But you're, you're my one recurring guest because you're here in town. You're closely connected. Ron is a member of our advisory board as well, at the leader's perspective. So that's what I mean by being a mentor. He's. He's just given some great perspective and helping to stretch me and push me and hopefully every once in a while I kind of do that with him too.
Although he's, he's really. He's really just got so many great things going on. You have a conference coming up, a one day conference here in Columbia.
Unpacked. Tell us what that is.
[00:04:42] Speaker D: Yeah, Unpacked Leadership Conference. And this is the first year we built it up under our brand and really what drove it is almost like me coming on the show is having a real authentic conversation without pre scripted questions and bringing our community together for professional development.
At the end of the day, I think organizations are challenged with professional development consistently and we want to put a staple event that allows all organizations from all backgrounds across our entire city to be in one room together first to build relationships, but to realize they're not the only organization struggling with what they may be struggling with around leadership. So it's strictly professional development.
You know, panel keynote speakers, you know that we're just bringing everything to the table. Each speaker will get about 35 minutes to give you the best of what they got.
And it has to be, you know, some call to actions for you and things that you walk out with. So this is not a. We're going to make you feel good, go home and nothing works. I've challenged everybody that's on stage. They must give something to the people that are in the audience that they can actually use with their teens or their families or their community. So I'm excited. It's the first year come out October 3rd. I'm really excited about it for the lineup, but more importantly to keep our community together.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: GCS Consulting is the website to go to if you're in the area and you want more information on that. What I think I love about it, Ron, is the format being.
I won't call it rapid fire, but this isn't. We're not taking two hours on a thing. It's these 35 minute. It sort of.
Sometimes we call them snackables, but they're. But they. What it does is it keeps stimulation because I can get. I can get bored. We can all get bored at a conference. You're not that. This doesn't sound like one. You're going to be able to get.
[00:06:24] Speaker D: Bored at every 35 minutes it'll be a different person and you're going to be engaged and you're going to be engaged and they're going to. Literally everybody's required to give you three things that actually work. So not something they read about, not something they heard about. Like they actually do it.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: Well, the other thing is if I'm given 35 minutes, I have to really think about what is it I'm really trying to say?
[00:06:48] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: Because I only have 35 minutes to say it.
[00:06:49] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: So I tend to have. I probably have more substance in a 20 to 30 minute talk than I do an hour.
[00:06:56] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Because you got where I can just ramble.
[00:06:58] Speaker D: Yes. You got fluff time in 35 minutes. You really gotta be on your game.
[00:07:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:02] Speaker D: You got to put some thought into what am I going to say for 35 minutes that's going to give people something to walk away with other than I made them feel good. In this mode, it's not motivational. So if you're looking for the motivational speech, they won't happen.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: One of the. I say this all the time. I use this. You've heard it. Probably everybody's heard it. But it's accredited to different people.
So it's one of those legends, you know, like, did anybody really say this? But it's often accredited to Winston Churchill.
[00:07:29] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: Who supposedly said, if they want me to speak for five minutes, I need a week to prepare. If they want me to speak for an hour, I'm ready to go right now.
[00:07:39] Speaker D: Yes, it's real.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: It is real.
[00:07:41] Speaker D: Because you have to think harder when you got less time.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I've got five minutes.
[00:07:45] Speaker D: I've got to pare it down. You gotta pare it down. And that's what I'm asking everybody to do. But I'm also asking people to come prepared, to pull out a notepad and take notes and walk away with stuff. You know, it's an investment in your own professional development.
[00:07:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:58] Speaker D: And I'm asking organizations and companies and I'm holding every, every presenter accountable. You know, one of our opening keynote, you know, is, you know, it's Tim Arnold from, you know, he's over at Colonial Life. Been phenomenal in his role for many, many years. And what I've asked him to do at the conference, Patrick, is I want him to speak for 20 minutes. He'll probably get the longest amount of time, but I want him to have open questions for 20 minutes.
No question, off the table.
[00:08:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:25] Speaker D: Most CEOs won't take that, right? He doesn't. And so he said, any question, Ron?
[00:08:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Politicians won't either.
[00:08:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:08:31] Speaker D: Press conferences. Yeah. He's like, no, let's filter these questions and what's going to be coming. And so I wanted him to be able to just be authentic and be in the moment because he's done such a great job. He's a good friend, but he's done a phenomenal job and a mentor for me and someone you just sit down and he's done a great job at Colonial Life. You know, when I walk into his organization, there's 3,500 people in there, and I'm like, he knows 90% of his staff name. Like, who does that?
[00:08:55] Speaker C: Right, right.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: In today's world, at that size company, that size company, what I love about that is this isn't just some leadership consultant. This guy's living it in the crucible of leadership. And that's.
It's always good to hear every day.
[00:09:07] Speaker D: Every day. Which is why I asked him to open it up. And, you know, at the conference, you know, I mean, I'm also. Patrick, you know, you know, if your schedule had allowed, you know, we'd work that, but I'm actually creating space. We got a lot of phenomenal people in Columbia that need a stage to show what they do because oftentimes you don't. People don't know what you have in your city. I want to change that. There are some phenomenal people that do great work in the city. I leverage a lot of them. I'm friends with a lot of them that do good work. I'm always out in public, but I got some friends that do some phenomenal work.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: What's great is that those people, it only takes about 20 minutes, if that, to tell this person's got it.
[00:09:45] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: You know, I know a lot of consultants. I've never watched them in action.
[00:09:49] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: I like them and maybe I hear good things about them. It's hard to refer someone that you haven't watched, you haven't seen in action. And that makes a difference because you have an opportunity at least go, wow.
[00:10:03] Speaker C: They.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: This is someone I would not only hire, but I would recommend.
[00:10:08] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a recommendation. It's a referral on my part. I mean, of course, it's our platform, it's our brand. But people know that I'm going to do quality work. I'm invite quality people. I mean, I'm speaking at South Carolina Thrive because of you. I mean, you made the recommendation, they reached out and you know, Trisha, hey, can you do this? Patrick, you came highly recommended.
That's what I want to create in our community.
[00:10:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:27] Speaker D: That's what my business is built on.
[00:10:29] Speaker B: That's beautiful.
[00:10:29] Speaker C: It's beautiful. It's great.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Again, GCS Dot consulting. Is the website a little different than what you're used to on a website, GCS Consulting, and get more information there. All right, Ron, you ready?
[00:10:44] Speaker D: I'm ready.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: So these are in random order. And I'm not calling anybody out if there's. If some of my coaches are listening to this and they go, hey, I think that's me he's talking about. It's. Trust me, it might be you, but it is not only you.
[00:10:59] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:10:59] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: I picked out things that come up more than by just one person. These aren't one offs.
[00:11:04] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: And so here's the first question. The first question is about decision making.
[00:11:08] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: The larger an organization gets, the more separated decision making pathways are from the front lines to the C suite.
[00:11:21] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: Most C suite leaders that I work with want to involve and empower and engage all the team in decision making.
But it's not really practical that everybody gets a voice in every decision that gets made, how do you balance it? How do you create. How does a leader, an executive leader, create an environment where their people are heard, they have voice, they're not ignored, they're not blindsided by decisions, but they're not. Also, there's not an expectation that they get to weigh in on everything.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:00] Speaker D: I mean, it's a phenomenal question because it's real and it's happening. You know, at the end of the day, you know, there are a couple of things that, That I practice and always when I come on the show is. Is I talk about what I do, not about what I read.
[00:12:11] Speaker C: Yeah, good. Yeah.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: Because we can all read.
[00:12:13] Speaker D: Yeah, we can all read. And some things that you read are not applicable. Don't apply to you.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:12:18] Speaker D: It's just too difficult. It just doesn't work.
[00:12:20] Speaker B: It's not a one size fits all.
[00:12:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:22] Speaker D: It's not your personality. And so for me, in my role in running an organization and going from two people to the company we have now, we experienced that. What I had to be really mindful of is a couple things that I kept the people that are closest to me that's going to get the message out. I kept them informed well enough so they didn't. Because in the absence of information, the church, the story changes, you know, so they. If they don't know it, they'll. They'll make up. Well, the reason we're doing this is because of this and because of this, and it's not actually true. So I didn't give enough information because people fill in gaps. So I will say that first.
[00:12:53] Speaker B: And that's not just a leadership 10, that's a communication. Communication.
In the absence of a message, one will be created for you.
[00:13:01] Speaker D: Absolutely. Every day, all the time. I mean, so I had to make sure I say, what don't we want to be created? So that was my first thing. What are we trying to avoid? Not what we're trying to accomplish. My first question is, what are we trying to avoid? Confusion.
[00:13:13] Speaker C: Great.
[00:13:14] Speaker D: What. What does that require of us? At every level, there's a. There's a message that we need to make sure that the tone and the real concrete thing that we want people to have doesn't get lost. And I don't get the whole message. It's par down several layers at a time. And I think the military taught me better than anything the need to know at the level that you at.
[00:13:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:32] Speaker D: And I practice that. So what do the people. That's. That's no, at the front line, that's going to meet our customers first. That's going to put the PowerPoint together. What do they need to know to be able to put that together? So when I'm on stage, it works the way that I need it to work. So it's a need to know at the level that you're at. And we communicate often early and engage all the time.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: So there's a flip to that, too, Ron, on the level, and that is that often C Suites are.
I'll just use the word, you know, maybe. Maybe this is extreme, but out of touch.
[00:14:02] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:14:03] Speaker B: With the front line.
[00:14:04] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: And so when we say, well, this is a decision that needs to be made at the C suite level.
[00:14:08] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:14:09] Speaker D: But it.
[00:14:09] Speaker B: But it either impacts the front line or there's intel from the front line that the C suite needs to make a good decision.
[00:14:19] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:14:19] Speaker B: And I think that's where I see a lot of issues, is frontliners going. They're making these big decisions, and they're not understanding what's going on in the ground here every single day. And so they're making bad decisions.
[00:14:29] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:14:30] Speaker D: A good show for everyone that's listening. Undercover Boss.
Yeah, Undercover Boss highlighted exactly what we're talking about.
Make a decision at the headquarters about, let's just say, building a new iPhone, but they don't understand the usage of a person that doesn't always navigate or use an iPhone or doesn't have the technology experience, but yet they're making this phenomenal iPhone.
[00:14:52] Speaker C: Right.
[00:14:53] Speaker D: My mom never got an iPhone ever, so. So we got to make sure that there's communication going back and forth. There's so much that I may need at the top level, but what are the things on the ground? So you got to get to the practical use of what you're actually saying needs to happen. How do you make sure that actually works for the person that's the end user? I think Undercover Boss did a great example of the show. I don't know if it's still running or not, but I watched it all the time, say, well, where am I doing that in my company where I'm not making sure that what the intended purpose or use of this. I'm not thinking of the end user. I'm thinking of me living the life I live today. Let's use Hurricane Katrina.
Most people complained about the people that did not leave New Orleans at that time. We had about 20 years, you know, post, post. After the Hurricane Katrina.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: You mean that didn't evacuate?
[00:15:39] Speaker D: That didn't evacuate. And People were complaining. Why didn't they evacuate? I say, well, what if they really didn't have the revenue? What if they really didn't have a car? What if they really didn't know how to catch a bus? What if they really didn't know how to evacuate? Because we make an assumption, because we live in a life, that we know how to do it all.
I'm sure there are things that we are not even aware of. I just. It's hard to believe that many people didn't evacuate and could have and knew how to and had the resources. It's just unbelievable. Or it may have been all they had and they didn't want to lose it. They'd rather die with it.
[00:16:09] Speaker B: Didn't have anywhere to go.
[00:16:10] Speaker D: Didn't have anywhere to go. Yeah.
[00:16:11] Speaker B: And there was probably a mix.
[00:16:12] Speaker C: Right.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: There were also some people in denial that this is going to, you know, we've, you know, we've seen storms before or my house will be fine or. But I think you're right. I think there's more people that would have gotten out.
[00:16:26] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:16:26] Speaker D: If they had had any idea, inclination, resources. And I say that because there are times, you know, when I was a younger, a younger person in the workforce, there are things that the higher leadership.
Our world has changed because of technology.
The smartest person is not always at the top anymore.
The most senior person may be at the top, but the smartest person in the organization, if you listen, usually it's the person that's closest to the problem.
And I think we got to be better about it. So I totally agree with you, Patrick, is how do you balance it?
Communicate often, communicate early and make sure people have the information at the level that they are. And that's not what you think they need. Ask them what they need.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: Yeah, so. So to pare down the question just a little bit more and then we'll move on.
The question then is how do you involve them in the decision?
And so giving information is one thing. Here's a decision we made, and we're going to communicate it. And you're talking a lot about communication.
[00:17:22] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: What about the actual process of making the decision? How do I engage you in that without giving you the expectation that you get at a pastor once that said, you. You can have your say, if not your way.
[00:17:35] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:17:36] Speaker D: I love it. I'll tell you, you know, for me, what I do practice in real time. I'll tell everybody. I'll make the final decision, but I will always engage you for consultation, for support, to make the Right decision.
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Because to be informed, but.
[00:17:49] Speaker D: Yeah. So I want to keep. I want to be informed, but the decision to be made is mine. And I think leaders got to be okay with saying that to their team. The decision is mine to be made. It's like my daughter, you know, hey, honey, here are the things that we're thinking about doing, but the decision of where we're going to go will be up to me.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Or the decision is the C Suites. Or the decision is the boards.
[00:18:06] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: Sometimes that's the case in many of the organizations that we work with.
[00:18:10] Speaker D: And leaders are responsible for making decisions. I mean, you. And you got to own that and be okay with that. So. See, Sweet parent. In a church, in a school, running a business, there is a. Where the buck stops. It really stops. And we got to be able to say that in the organization without making people feel like they're not valued.
[00:18:24] Speaker C: Right, right.
[00:18:25] Speaker B: Just because they didn't.
It didn't. It didn't turn out the way they would have decided it.
[00:18:29] Speaker D: Well, and it goes back to Patrick. And think about, you know, when I look at the leader's perspective, if you're a respected leader, people don't mind you saying that to them. They know you are supposed to make the decision. Matter of fact, they're waiting for you to make that decision.
[00:18:41] Speaker C: Right?
[00:18:41] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:18:41] Speaker D: But they want you to take their input. They don't want to make the decision. They don't want the burden of making a decision. I don't think I really. Everybody in my company don't want the burden on their shoulders.
[00:18:50] Speaker B: That's a really good point.
I hadn't thought about it that way. So if I'm hearing you right, there's probably a lot of people even on the front lines who say they want a voice in the decision. What they're really saying is, I want a voice that gets heard and respected.
[00:19:05] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:19:06] Speaker D: Because I don't want the burden. I made some really tough decisions in our organization and in the military and in my community.
You know, even at the chamber, I make some important. Some really hard decisions.
[00:19:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:15] Speaker D: That I gotta be able to sleep with at night. That doesn't feel good. Some people don't want to make those decisions.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:19:21] Speaker D: You know, when my mother got sick, you know, my mom, I can remember saying, baby, I'm glad you have to make this decision that I don't.
That was someone I followed all my life. But she had gotten to the age where she wasn't comfortable with making challenging decisions anymore. She said, honey, I'm glad it's you and not me.
[00:19:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:38] Speaker D: And you got to make a decision.
[00:19:39] Speaker B: And I'm gonna go with it.
[00:19:40] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:41] Speaker D: And so those things, at the end of the day, if you're a respected leader and you're going to do things right, people want you to make decision, but they don't want to be ignored and they don't want to be minimized in that process.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: That's good. So to sum it up, make the decisions. It's your role to make.
[00:19:58] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: But don't ignore the voice of your people as you make them.
[00:20:01] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:20:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: It's beautiful.
[00:20:03] Speaker D: It's beautiful.
[00:20:03] Speaker B: It's simple, but it isn't easy.
[00:20:05] Speaker D: It is not easy.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: It really isn't easy. All right, here's. Here's the next question.
Dei.
[00:20:11] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Is it dead? What's the deal with dei? What are you telling organizations right now? What are you finding? And me. Set the question up just a little bit more. You know, I work a lot in the nonprofit sector, and funding from the federal government to the nonprofit sector, about a third of nonprofit revenue in the country comes from the federal government. And it's. It's all up for grabs right now. It's all on the. It's all on the block. And much of it has to do with literally, the language used in our mission statements and our, you know, our value statements, our strategic plans, our programs are even designed around dei.
And I'm coaching organizations. Literally, I'm hearing it all. I mean, and these are people.
The vast majority of the clients that I'm working for are all in on dei.
[00:21:00] Speaker C: Right.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: They're all.
[00:21:01] Speaker C: They're.
[00:21:01] Speaker B: They're all in. And so they're really. They're feeling very threatened. They're feeling attacked, even. Yes.
And so I'm hearing things like, well, I mean, literally, I've heard this at board meetings. Well, DEI is dead, so what are we going to do?
[00:21:15] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: And I, you know, I thought, well, wait a minute. DEI is a concept.
[00:21:19] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: The concept isn't dead, at least, you know.
[00:21:23] Speaker E: But.
[00:21:24] Speaker B: But what are you. What's. What's the deal? What's the environment right now in the world you're working in?
[00:21:28] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:28] Speaker D: I don't think it's dead. What I think. What I think, I'll say. I don't, in my opinion, is not dead. What I will say it's been weaponized. Because when you. When you really step back and look at it, I haven't. I've asked this question several times, and I haven't gotten a response that says it's dead and it's. What part of it do you not like? What part of it doesn't work?
[00:21:46] Speaker C: Right.
[00:21:46] Speaker D: Is it the diversity? Do you think that you don't want diversity at all levels? I'm not talking just black and white, male or female. Do you not want different people at the table? I want diversity on a menu. I don't want just one thing on the menu when I walk in a restaurant.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: And when you ask that question, they will tell you, of course I value diversity.
[00:22:02] Speaker D: Okay, great. So that's not an issue. Okay, so now. Now we're going to. We're going to talk about equity.
[00:22:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:07] Speaker D: Do you think.
Who in the room. Raise your hand real quick. Don't think everybody should be treated equally.
Okay, so that's not an issue. Okay. Who do you want to not include?
That's not an issue. So let's get away from this language of now. I will tell you, it's been weaponized. I think, you know, when we first started this, this journey, I think it was done inappropriately in a lot of.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Spaces you and I have talked a lot about. The word I use was hijacked.
[00:22:30] Speaker D: Yeah. I felt like, oh, my goodness.
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Hijacked its.
[00:22:33] Speaker D: Yeah, well, it was done wrong. You know, if I was a white male, it felt bad to be in a room because you were blamed for everything that was going on. I'm not saying that white males didn't play their role in it, but everybody played their role in it. Let's just own it and say, as America, we've owned our role in not getting this right to make sure everybody is respected and treated fairly in our society.
[00:22:54] Speaker B: I'd like to think that wrong.
[00:22:55] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:22:55] Speaker D: But I don't think that's what we.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: But have we.
[00:22:57] Speaker D: Yeah, I don't.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: Have we really owned it?
[00:23:00] Speaker D: Well, I won't say the country's owned it. I don't think the country has owned that.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:23:03] Speaker D: I'd say let's. If we can get to the place where we can own it.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Most of the people you and I are working with have a full grasp on.
[00:23:09] Speaker D: Absolutely. Yeah, I think we do. And I think, you know, we don't have to weather the storm. Here's what I say to our organizations. And we got to be really, really mindful of.
I don't. At the end of the day, we got to be good enough to outlive any policy, any political move, any administration. What do you really stand for? Because administrations is going to change every couple of years.
Leaders are going to change what's the core of your organization? What's the core of who you are? So at the end of the day, do I want to respect everybody? If you look at my conference, I pay attention to di at conferences to make sure everybody's in the room.
Yeah. It's what I do all the time.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: So I'm pointing for our listeners. I'm pointing at my blackboard behind us here at a question that I keep in front of me all the time in the top right corner.
[00:23:56] Speaker C: Run.
[00:23:56] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:23:57] Speaker B: To me, this is the. This. This is how I stay centered. And the question is, am I being the person I want to be right now?
[00:24:04] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: I had several of my coaches immediately following the most recent election.
[00:24:12] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:24:13] Speaker B: I had a coaching call with them the next day.
[00:24:15] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:24:17] Speaker B: Ron, when I tell you that people were really, I mean, people were traumatized. If you, you know, we don't make this show political all the time, but. But we all know we've seen it. No matter who we voted for, we saw the trauma just like we saw the trauma from some people. You know, the election before.
[00:24:38] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:24:40] Speaker B: I felt it in some of the nonprofit leaders who felt like it was such a defeat for the sector and for society and that their. Their team was depressed today, and they're like, what are we gonna do? And the question I asked that day of at least three coaches that day was, tell me, what's different for you and your leadership today than yesterday?
[00:25:09] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:25:10] Speaker B: And they really. That. That stuff kind of PA Gave them a little pause, and then at the end of the conversation, it was really nothing.
So there. Are there. Are there threats? Are there changes in, you know, the culture around us? Do we have to adapt?
[00:25:26] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:25:26] Speaker B: We have to do all that. But in terms of your mission and who you are as a leader and what you're trying to get your team to do, does any of that change today?
[00:25:35] Speaker D: No. I mean, I think that's an important question for us, you know, you think it's D.E.I.
[00:25:39] Speaker C: Did.
[00:25:39] Speaker D: No, it's not.
Will we do it differently? Absolutely. Will we be able to take care of the people that's important to us? Absolutely. Will we be able to. Inclusive community? Absolutely. Will we make sure people. Yeah. Didn't do the work.
[00:25:51] Speaker B: Didn't do the work. Which is more important than saying you're doing the work.
[00:25:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:55] Speaker D: And I think that's where it becomes, you know, a challenge, is if you got to say that you're doing it versus just. Just do the work.
[00:26:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:01] Speaker D: At the end of the day, our kids, our society, our communities, they won't thrive if we box ourselves into just what we are comfortable with.
[00:26:09] Speaker B: So a lot of. A lot of leaders are struggling. For example, you know, there's conversations in boardrooms right now about, well, do we need to change this language in our strategy when. When non profits write grants.
[00:26:22] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: They have to put. They often have to include their strategic plan.
[00:26:26] Speaker D: Absolutely.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: And their strategic plan has things in it that are clearly stated. Dei.
[00:26:31] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:26:32] Speaker C: Right.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: Openly.
[00:26:33] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:26:33] Speaker B: And then I'm going to go back and change the language.
[00:26:35] Speaker C: The.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: The. The Council on Nonprofit. The National Council on Nonprofits literally put out advice. Like written advice.
[00:26:43] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Immediately go to your websites and get rid of the language. Don't get rid of the concept.
But if you want to. If you want to play in the game right now. Yep. You're going to have to scrub the language. And people are struggling with that because they feel like that by scrubbing the language, they are betraying the ethics of the concept.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:06] Speaker D: I mean, I get it.
Words, you know, the thing with sticks and stones may break my bones or words may never hurt me. It's not true. I don't know where we got to where language doesn't matter. It does. But the behavior and activity and the actions in the work is more important than language in my perception. So when I walk into a room, I don't have to wear a banner or a stick on my head that says, I'm here to represent dei. Me being there is DE and I.
Me doing the work is D and I.
Me on this. On the show with you right now.
[00:27:34] Speaker C: Is DE and I. Yeah.
[00:27:35] Speaker D: Me making sure I'm in all rooms and communities and inviting people. Is it. So I don't have to say it. I just gotta live it. And I think so. Sometimes we get caught up in saying so much to prove a concept. Just do it and let them see the results.
[00:27:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:27:49] Speaker D: The results will speak for themselves. And nobody wants to lose. So the work that I get to do, the spaces that I get to play in, I still get invited. People know I'm an African American male that cares about everybody being in the room. They know that about who I am as a human being. The people that don't want that won't call me. And the ones that do, I get to do the work with.
[00:28:06] Speaker C: Yeah, that's.
[00:28:08] Speaker B: And that's who you want to work with?
[00:28:09] Speaker D: I'm okay.
[00:28:09] Speaker C: Yeah, that's good.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: It's beautiful. We get. We could go the rest of the time just on that topic. Here's my next question. I have a lot of coaches who who, when they're doing their initial goal setting, they say, I want to. I want to get more strategic. I don't spend enough time in strategic thinking and managing my work strategically. I. I spend my time in the weeds and I'm in the. I'm in the performance and the work that has to get done. And. And I really want to get more strategic or my boss wants me to get more. My boss keeps telling me they want me to think more strategically and get more strategic. You and I get that. We understand that. We know how to think strategically. We know. But for people who don't, really. Well, what does that mean?
What does thinking strategic. What is that shift that I have to. That I have to go through?
And what tips would you give on how to start thinking about that differently? So I bring more of a strategic mindset to my work than I have before.
[00:29:11] Speaker D: Yeah. A lot of people struggle with this. So if you're out there and you listen to this call, even when I first started doing the work, I had to figure it out myself, you know, So a lot of people struggle with it, quite honestly, of understanding what is strategic. The word came and people say it all the time, and it's nice and fancy. Said it sounds smart. Look like, you know, you're talking about until someone actually, what does it mean? So I've been there. I will tell you. What helped me figure it out is I had to strip away anything that required me to physically have to do something versus the blueprint of the something. And I started looking at strategic as a blueprint for someone else that can do this without me being present. What is it that's going to move it in the direction that we wanted to go in? So it's more in my mind now, the blueprint to get things done, not the how to get it done.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: That's really good. I would. I would add one more thing to it, which is, why are we doing it?
[00:30:00] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:30:01] Speaker B: Why is a strategic question. I mean, it goes to the heart of strategy. It's like, well, we got to get the Facebook page updated. Why. Why do we have a Facebook page? What's its purpose? Why. Why do. Why does this organization need one?
[00:30:15] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:30:16] Speaker B: And who's our audience for that? And what are we trying to accomplish with our Facebook page rather than just have one? And let's. Let's answer all that before we answ. Answer how many posts a day we want and whose job it is.
[00:30:29] Speaker C: And.
[00:30:29] Speaker B: And.
[00:30:29] Speaker C: Right.
[00:30:30] Speaker B: That's the. That's a really almost oversimplified version of the Difference between strategic and tactical. But the why, it to me is what helps people. Oh, I get it. Why are we doing this?
[00:30:41] Speaker D: Yeah. I think a lot of people too, in the Patrick, when you think of why, a lot of people struggle with separating their personal why from their professional goal of why.
[00:30:48] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:48] Speaker D: You know, because there's, you know, because we're taught and you hear the conversation. I know your why, know your why, Know your why, know your why, know your why. Okay. Yeah, got it. I know my why, but I'm still confused.
[00:30:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:57] Speaker D: So when you go back to strategic planning, people have to really separate the two. Like, what is it? What is the why for this organization that I can make sure that it's sustainable and outlast me and outlive me? What does that need to look like going forward?
[00:31:08] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:09] Speaker D: So it causes you to slow down and. And I'll tell you. No, no more. It's super. It's very important right now because things are changing so fast. If you don't understand the why is there's so much noise in the market.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: It was so well said. And what you're bringing to light is that there are levels of why.
[00:31:28] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:31:28] Speaker B: So you're talking about the organizations. Why. Why we're here. And I asked that question a lot of all the organizations you've heard me ask, you've been in the room.
But I'm talking about a daily why. Why do we, at our board meetings, why do we give our board members the whole 10 pages of numbers when we know they don't actually look at it or even know why are we doing that? Okay, so. So let's find out. There might be a good reason.
[00:31:53] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:31:54] Speaker C: Right.
[00:31:54] Speaker B: Our finance committee wants full disclosure and they want the details and they want whatever. Whatever it might be.
[00:32:00] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:32:00] Speaker B: But often that question leads us to, you know, it's a really good question. They probably only need a two page overview with a pie chart and a couple of line graphs. And the bottom line on how we're doing this month.
[00:32:11] Speaker E: Yes, yes.
[00:32:12] Speaker D: You know, you think about it even like, you know, for our conference, you know, when we started building it out, people say, well, why are you really building a conference? And it came down.
[00:32:19] Speaker B: Great example.
[00:32:20] Speaker D: It literally came down to, I wanted to keep our community together.
[00:32:23] Speaker B: You just said it at the beginning of the show.
[00:32:25] Speaker D: At the end of the day, I said, guys, one thing I notice about our community is we have pockets or if you will, silos, or own little segments of our population.
We're not like the Midlands would be so much better if The Midlands just was the Midlands versus West Columbia. Northeast Columbia and Irma and Lexington. Columbia. Like, wait a minute.
[00:32:46] Speaker C: It.
[00:32:47] Speaker D: I'm from Florida, from Palm Beach County. It's called Palm Beach County. That. That covers that whole region, or South Florida, which has a South Florida. Yeah, it's a South Florida brain.
[00:32:57] Speaker B: Right.
[00:32:57] Speaker D: You know, so. So how do we get past ourselves and not get so caught up into this little piece of the bigger picture? Because the Midlands can be whatever we want it to be if we did it together.
[00:33:09] Speaker B: Yeah. And you've got a lot of municipal and political hurdles to jump there. Absolutely. What I think what you're doing can happen regardless of the municipal lines and the political lines in the sand. You're doing something that can transcend all that because nobody can stop you from it.
[00:33:27] Speaker C: Right.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: It's like, hey, we're gonna. I'm gonna bring everybody together.
[00:33:30] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: We're gonna look at the region and the talent in the region. We're gonna expose that talent so people can use it.
[00:33:35] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:33:36] Speaker D: I want to improve our area by using everybody.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: That's beautiful.
[00:33:39] Speaker D: And I don't care about the zip code. I don't care about the college. I don't care about what side of the city you live on. But even the industry, I saw, we have military personnel, we have CEOs of hospitals, we have business owners in the room. We have people that do the work I do that's on stage. I'm like, look, come. I want you on stage. You're good at what you do. You add value to what we're trying to get done, and it's not about me. So I think one of the things that get in our way of doing that really well is we all got these egos and these agendas that are not for the greater good.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: That's good.
We have a mutual friend in Charles Weathers.
[00:34:11] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:34:12] Speaker B: And I've quoted this many times, and I've thanked Charles for it.
[00:34:16] Speaker C: He.
[00:34:17] Speaker B: Eight or nine years ago. We're in a room of consultants within the Together SC universe, which is our state nonprofit association. Used to be scanpo.
[00:34:30] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:34:30] Speaker D: Remember scanpo? Yes.
[00:34:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: That. That's with Rebranded.
[00:34:33] Speaker C: Right.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: And it's Together sc, and it's a room full of consultants, and the consultant field has blown up. I mean, when I. When I first moved here in 2015, there were a hand. I mean, handful. There were a handful in our space, in the nonprofit space. Anyway. There were a handful. I mean, Charles was leading the way, of course. He has been for years.
And, you know, I came on the Scene. There were a couple of others that, you know, a few others that have been around a while today. Ron. Our state association has over 150 consultant members.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: And they're active on a listserv and they. We have a cool. It's called the consultant collaborative. And the reason we're calling it the collaborative is because we're not. Not trying to compete with each other. We're trying to collaborate for the betterment of the sector. And the way Charles put it in the room was, folks, there's a. There is plenty of business for all of us.
None of us, if we're good at what we do, none of us is going to starve.
[00:35:38] Speaker D: Yeah. Make the pie bigger.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: Make the pie bigger.
[00:35:40] Speaker D: Yeah. Make the pie bigger.
[00:35:41] Speaker B: There's plenty. There's plenty of work for all of us.
[00:35:43] Speaker D: We don't.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: We don't need to compete the way.
[00:35:46] Speaker D: Here's what I think we do. And this is where everyone is listening. Regardless of what industry in man, there are seven Chick Fil A's in this area.
[00:35:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:55] Speaker D: How, if they can survive?
Seven. If they can survive?
You tell me. We don't have room for consultants to do well.
[00:36:03] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:04] Speaker D: And be productive and add value. So here's what. Here's my message to everyone that's listening that's struggling with working with their competition.
I call it coop petition. Cooperate with your competition.
[00:36:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:16] Speaker D: Because what your client wants is the best that you can deliver. And if it's more than just you that can bring Ben, bring Patrick to the table to help you deliver the best to your client.
[00:36:25] Speaker C: Right.
[00:36:25] Speaker D: If it's really about your client, who do you need at the table with you to deliver the best to your client?
[00:36:31] Speaker C: Right.
[00:36:31] Speaker D: Get your ego out the way.
[00:36:32] Speaker B: And that's how everybody wins.
[00:36:33] Speaker D: That's how everybody wins.
[00:36:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:34] Speaker D: Yeah. And you're going to become smarter. You're going to be better. I mean, we just had a conversation the other day, and I say, patrick, hey, this. This company is interested. And I told them they need to talk to you. I told them, actually, if they brought me in, I'm going to bring you in because you're good at that work. And, you know, how do you get out of the way if you really want to be successful? Help somebody else.
[00:36:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:53] Speaker B: It's good.
We covered a question that wasn't even asked in that one. I like that we made some ground in it. All right, question number four for me. And I'm just going to ask it like this. Aside from something egregious like I stole money or I did something that, that, you know, I need to be terminated for immediately.
[00:37:11] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:37:12] Speaker B: At what point does a leader part ways with an employee?
At what point does the leader say, you know, what I.
This, this, and this.
It's time.
It's time to pull that lever.
[00:37:28] Speaker D: Yeah. There are two things that come to mind immediately for me. One is when. When it goes against my values, you know, at the end of the day, it just works against, like, what you're trying to do as a company, what you stand for, and that's important. When it works against what you really say you're living up to be.
And I'm gonna keep it simple when it comes to. If you say you're gonna do this particular project and you consistently not do it over time and time and time again, and the team is paying for it and it's causing a distinction within your organization, it's time to part ways with that employee. And I call it coach up or coach out. If I can help you get better, I want to lean into that. But if I got to help you be better somewhere else, I want to coach you into that as well.
[00:38:06] Speaker B: One of the obvious challenges to that.
[00:38:08] Speaker C: That is.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: Simply put, the issue of protected class.
[00:38:15] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:38:15] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: And so I work with a lot of leaders who are. So they're, they're literally afraid to terminate someone who is poorly performing.
[00:38:23] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: Regularly.
[00:38:24] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:38:25] Speaker B: But there's a. There's, at the very least, there could be an optics problem. There could be, you know, whatever that case might be. The laws around hr.
[00:38:36] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: And it's not. I don't just mean the protected class thing, but that's an example of the laws around HR, around how and when you can terminate somebody. Scare CEOs to death.
Too many of them anyway, in my opinion.
[00:38:50] Speaker D: So I'll pull on HR hat for you. Spent time in that space.
What I did practice in that time is I'm going to do everything right that I know how to do right. And every employee has a right as well.
As long as I've documented it well, I've had the conversations, I'm going to take the action that I feel best to take next. And I'm never going to violate their rights. They get to file a complaint, they get to say they weren't treated fairly. Doesn't mean they win.
Just do everything right with them and they. It's their right to file a complaint against you if they felt it was unfair. Don't be afraid of that. Do not be afraid of people filing claims they're entitled to.
Do not Violate their entitlements. Just do the right thing all the time and let them do what they feel they need to do. People hold on to people that they're protected as well. So it's not like the employer is not protected. They are, but they get frustrated when someone goes out and filing complaint. Well, I was treated unfairly. Make them prove it.
But that doesn't mean you should keep them while they're trying to prove it.
Be okay with it. And I coach a lot of our clients into that space. I say, look, got enough documentation. Everything's been done. I see where you documented. I see you had the record. I see you tried to improve. I see you had them on a pip. Hey, your next action is you have grounds to terminate. Now, keep in mind, they may come back and want to file a lawsuit against you because of this. Because I'm a male or because I'm an age, Because I'm a female, because I'm Hispanic, because of. Blah, blah, whatever. They got these. Yes.
[00:40:10] Speaker C: Great.
[00:40:11] Speaker D: It's protected classes and they still exist, and that's okay. But make sure you do everything right and let them prove it. I worked in the office where people file complaints.
[00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah, me too.
[00:40:19] Speaker D: People are entitled to file a complaint. Don't be offended. Don't be angry. Don't take it out personal. Don't even take it personal. They have a right, just like you do.
[00:40:27] Speaker B: In my experience, they rarely won.
[00:40:29] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: Not that they shouldn't at times, but. But it was. It was the exception. It wasn't the rule.
[00:40:36] Speaker D: Yeah, it wasn't.
[00:40:37] Speaker B: It's not the rule that if you fire someone, the chances are overwhelming. They're going to come back on you and you're going to get slapped and they're going to.
[00:40:43] Speaker D: Just do it right.
[00:40:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:45] Speaker D: Do it right. And don't be intimidated by it. Now, if you. If you didn't do it right, then you should be hesitant. You shouldn't immediately do something. You know, if you did it right.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: Just look at it.
[00:40:55] Speaker D: If you know, when you. You violated someone's rights.
[00:40:57] Speaker B: So good.
[00:40:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: You know, you know, you know, you.
[00:41:00] Speaker D: May not want to accept it. Patrick.
[00:41:01] Speaker B: All right, last question.
The old covey matrix.
[00:41:05] Speaker C: Right.
[00:41:06] Speaker B: Urgent versus important.
[00:41:07] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:41:08] Speaker B: And I'll set this up a little bit.
You know, we. We coach leaders on this, that everyone thinks in the quadrants.
[00:41:17] Speaker C: Right.
[00:41:17] Speaker B: Low urgency, low importance, high urgency, low importance, high importance, low urgency, high. Both. High urgency, high importance.
[00:41:30] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: And I. And you'll. And the. The misconception is that leaders think I should spend my time in that fourth quadrant, if it's urgent and important, those are the things that demand my attention.
[00:41:41] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: Covey would differ.
[00:41:43] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:41:44] Speaker B: Covey would say no. As a, as an executive leader especially, you should be spending your time in the quadrant that is high importance, low urgency.
[00:41:52] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: Because that quadrant doesn't get the attention it needs when it needs it. Because you're dealing with all the fires.
[00:42:00] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:42:01] Speaker B: And so the day will come when it is no longer in that quadrant. It's now. Now it's become urgent and it might be too late to act. It's that for thinking and planning and thinking strategically and all that.
So a lot of leaders struggle with this, knowing the difference between, like, give me an example, Patrick. And I said, well, define urgent for me.
Like, like they'll say things like, you know, the printer, we had a direct mail campaign and the printer broke down. Well, that's urgent. The printer needs to get fixed because those, those, that's our campaign letter. They need to go out this week. And yes, that's urgent. And yes, it's important.
[00:42:39] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:42:40] Speaker B: Okay, then the question is, who's the right person then?
[00:42:44] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:42:44] Speaker B: To fix the printer. Is it the CEO?
Probably not. I mean, sometimes in a small, you know, two or three person shop, but you kind of get where I'm going is people have difficulty differentiating between urgent can sometimes be. My phone is ringing right now. Yes, that's urgent. I don't even know who it is, but it's ringing. So it's demanding my attention right on, right on the spot.
When and, and what they're struggling with is I don't know how to reach over and hit the do not disturb button. So my phone doesn't ring for an hour.
[00:43:16] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:43:16] Speaker B: Because I'm working on something important.
[00:43:18] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a phenomenal question. And I think a lot of people struggle with it personally, professionally. For me, the way that I walk through it, I don't know if I put it in the urgent or important. I think I balance it really well.
Like, what's the best use of my time based on what I'm trying to get accomplished?
Because sometimes the best use of my time is not on something that's urgent.
It's not the best return on investment for where I should be putting something at. There's someone on my team that that would be better fit and it still is urgent, just not urgent in what's the best use of my time?
[00:43:53] Speaker C: Right.
[00:43:54] Speaker D: Then there are times when what, what is urgent is the best use of my time. It gives me so when you're looking at time, because it's one thing that you're going to get back. And I think I use my team well enough to say, hey, guys, let me make sure. Let me ask questions. So you ask my team a lot of questions about the best use of my time.
What would be the best use of my time? You gave me two things. I can't do both. They both have to get done. Which one is the best use of my time that you guys need for me?
[00:44:17] Speaker B: I've heard you say that before. Best use of my time.
[00:44:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:20] Speaker B: And bet. And the best. Am I the best connector to this stakeholder?
[00:44:23] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:44:23] Speaker D: All the time, Patrick. Yeah, all the time. And I'll tell you what helps me do that, because sometimes I'm just not the best fit for what we're trying to get done.
[00:44:31] Speaker C: Right.
[00:44:33] Speaker D: I mean, I literally. And you've watched me do it. I'll tell people, hey, no, Patrick is much better now. Could I get it done yet? But it's gonna be a little extra work. It'll be good, but it won't be. It won't be as good as if he done it. And it's not the best use to use me. Here's where you probably can use me at even more effectively to get this thing if this is what you want to get.
I don't know if people do that often enough to pause and say, yes, it's urgent, but should I be doing it?
[00:44:56] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: And that's the delete, defer.
[00:44:59] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: Delegate, do. All right, the four Ds. Do I delete it?
Like, if it's in the. If it's not important or urgent, why is it even on this list?
If it's. If it's urgent but not important.
[00:45:11] Speaker C: Right.
[00:45:11] Speaker B: I can delegate that.
[00:45:13] Speaker D: That's a whole. That's a whole podcast.
[00:45:15] Speaker B: That is a whole podcast.
[00:45:16] Speaker D: But.
[00:45:17] Speaker B: But people. But. But I'm. I'm coaching a number of people who are having difficulty figuring out what to deem as.
I mean, it's about prioritizing, Right. It's about prioritizing my bandwidth in the most appropriate way right now.
[00:45:33] Speaker D: Yeah. I would say yes. And I will say go back and reflect on your new role description or job description because it's changed over time. And. And what I was.
You know, we just moved our daughter into college. Urgent and important has changed because my life has changed.
The reality is, you know, when she was home, there was a different way.
[00:45:57] Speaker B: But perspective.
[00:45:58] Speaker D: Yeah, it's perspective. So when you. Contextual.
Matter of fact, let's Just plug it here. It's a leader's perspective.
[00:46:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:07] Speaker D: So when I'm looking at it from that lens, urgent and important changes, and it gives me a different perspective on what's the best use of my time for my team.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: It's so true. I'm doing a lot of work right now in vertical development, vertical adult development, and we reach. Not only horizontal development is our skills and our competencies that we develop over time. Vertical development is our maturity and our experience.
And it changes. I'm in a different. I'm in a different. I have a different worldview today than I did 10 years ago, even when I come. And so it's contextual.
[00:46:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:41] Speaker D: Think about. I had a client asked me today that I'm coaching as a business owner, and they attend this conference, say, hey, you know, I don't know if I'm going to go to this conference next year. I just don't feel like it's delivering what. What it used to. I said, no, let me be really clear. It is.
You've changed.
[00:46:55] Speaker C: That's it.
[00:46:57] Speaker D: You've changed.
[00:46:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:58] Speaker B: I say, and that's okay.
[00:46:59] Speaker D: And that's okay because, you know, the better you get, that conference roof, like where you were at that moment in your career and your journey, it was phenomenal. But now they've given you what you needed and you're trying to stay in second grade. No, you're in third grade and fourth grade and fifth grade. The content and the material and the teacher has to change.
[00:47:15] Speaker B: That's. Boy, it's so well said.
And it actually is relevant for me right now because I have such a conference that's been a part of my life for a long time that I, I'm. It's. I've changed.
[00:47:26] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:47:26] Speaker B: And. And by the way, they have too.
[00:47:28] Speaker D: But you need something different.
[00:47:30] Speaker B: But things need to change. Yeah.
[00:47:31] Speaker D: We all need something different. You know, you think about in our, in our, in our personal relationships as I age with my wife, what, what we'll need from each other will change.
[00:47:40] Speaker C: Right.
[00:47:40] Speaker D: And that's okay.
[00:47:41] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:41] Speaker D: When it's not okay is you don't recognize and expect what. What you gave when you were 17, man. Then you got, then you got problems. So how do you make sure in every relationship, every position, everything that you do, would you change? What's the change necessary for you to.
[00:47:56] Speaker B: Fit in that every once in a while we have a moment that I call the 60 Second Rewind.
Go rewind your podcast 60 seconds and hear that again.
That's really good.
[00:48:07] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:48:08] Speaker B: That was My last question, Ron, so here's, here's one I have not asked you before and we've done this. Do you have any questions for me?
[00:48:15] Speaker D: Yeah. You know, as I sit back and I, and I watch you in your growth and you're a lifelong learner, what drives that for you? Because I've always watched you continue to educate, to read, to learn, to try. And you have this belief of there's something else there. And I think as I watch leaders today, with so much technology and the world changing so fast, what drives it for you and why is it relevant in the work you do?
[00:48:43] Speaker B: Oh, Ron, we're out of time. The music, the outro music has started. Darn it.
No, it's a great question and I know the answer immediately because I've spent a lot of time exploring that within myself and I'll try to keep it short because it's a pretty, it is a, it's a pretty in depth answer to the question. The short of it is I thrive when I perform.
So I like the, I like performing. So if you think of an athlete, a musician, I mean we hear performer, we think someone's on stage and they're doing something and you know, whatever coaching for me is perform, it's be. I'm on stage. I'm on stage right now with you. I'm wearing a microphone, we're delivering content. I want it to sound good.
I'm performing right now. When I'm giving a keynote, I'm performing. When I'm doing a training, I'm performing.
[00:49:44] Speaker C: I'm.
[00:49:45] Speaker B: When I am working on the business, I'm developing a new template or new toolkit. I'm in that instance, I'm preparing for the, for a better performance.
So it's much like an athlete does the work, the non glamorous work off the field or the court or whatever.
That's, that's me working on the business.
So all of the learning and you know, the, the, from academics to just diving in on my own to something, is that's that off court time for me because when I'm on the court, I want to be the best I can possibly be because I thrive on performing.
So I'm, I don't always fully enjoy like, you know, I did this global, this eight month global cohort thing with Dr. Peter Hawkins. It was an amazing thing, man. I, they were Those, those were 5:00am meetings. Yes, because it was global. And so in my, for the time zone that worked for me is five o' clock in the morning.
Sometimes three times a week.
Did I like getting, you know, and do it. Oh, man, I gotta get. I didn't always like that, but I knew if I want to perform at my highest level, I gotta put in the work.
So it's all talking about a. Why the learning and the staying engaged and driven is all being driven by. I can perform better. I can perform better. I want to perform better. There's still more.
That's best. I can answer that.
[00:51:15] Speaker D: No, I mean, I think it's important because I love the way you framed it though.
The non glamorous. So you can't perform.
[00:51:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:51:24] Speaker B: And, and by the way, real, real quickly, it's not just performance for the sake of performance, because I like to perform where, where the, the kicker is at the end of that is it's performance that creates value for someone.
[00:51:37] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:51:38] Speaker B: So the vat. There's value for me just in performing because it's fun.
[00:51:41] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:51:41] Speaker B: But that, But I don't do it because it's fun. That's a byproduct. That's a, that's a plus.
[00:51:46] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:51:47] Speaker B: I do it because it adds value.
I happen to have fun. I happen to have fun doing it.
And in some circles, in some instances, if I've trained myself well, I'm pretty good at it.
[00:51:57] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:51:58] Speaker B: So. But it, but it's always to create value.
[00:52:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:52:01] Speaker D: And I think that's why we get along great. I mean, you know, you look at our relationship and, you know, I can remember sitting at Capital City Club one, it was. And we met there and watching how you do and how you navigate. As much as, you know, you may learn from me. I learned from you. And watch. I was like, man, he puts in the work, you know, And I'm, I'm a, like, I'll, I'll go and do the reps. And I watch. I said, man, he's putting in some serious rep. I think he's better at this rep stuff than I am. I mean, he's literally putting some. And I'm always impressed and watching, but the relationship and the friendship, you kind of want people around you that's doing it a little bit better than you. And I. And I look for that.
I look at, I look like, okay, that's someone that's doing it better. Pay attention, pay attention. So I, that. So why, why does the relationship thrive? Because I look at someone that's doing it well, that's doing it good. That I do respect. And I want to say if I want to beat someone, if I can get to what he's doing. I've gotten better. I don't mean, I mean better than them. I said I got.
[00:52:53] Speaker B: I, I've gotten better. Yeah, that's right.
[00:52:55] Speaker D: So I look at that and so I have people.
[00:52:57] Speaker B: I think that's, I think that's very mutual. Simon Sinek's book, the Infinite Game.
[00:53:01] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:53:02] Speaker B: Where he talks about the goal is not to beat other people.
To win means stay in the game.
[00:53:10] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:53:11] Speaker B: The goal isn't to win. The goal is to stay in the game.
And you have to read the book to really understand the context, because people listen to that right now. Go, Bull. You know, but he's.
[00:53:22] Speaker D: If you like Kobe want to win.
[00:53:24] Speaker B: Everybody gets a trophy. What do you mean?
He gets the concept of winning. But what he's saying is, in business, you lose if all you're trying to do is beat somebody else. You win if you keep yourself sharp so that you stay in the game over the long term.
[00:53:40] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:53:41] Speaker D: I love it. Love it. Thank you.
[00:53:43] Speaker B: Well, thank you for that question. I'm only going to give you one.
So, because we're out of time, I want to, I want to ask about your upcoming book. You have a third book coming out, Impact Leadership. What's. What's. I mean, I could say what's it about? And know that it's about impact leadership. What's the, what's the center point?
[00:53:59] Speaker D: Yeah, the center point. Really. Patrick, in the last probably 15 to 17 years, I've always asked one question when I open up a lot of my facilitation or workshops, and the question was I, you know, asked everyone in the room and what is, who's the one person that's had the greatest impact on who you are today?
And, and write down the three words of how you would describe them. The words that I received didn't show up on LinkedIn profiles, didn't show up on resumes, didn't show up in job description.
It showed up. And these were people, the one person that they got to choose that had the greatest impact on who they are. Today I heard words that never showed up on resumes.
[00:54:36] Speaker B: I wish I'd known that a while back, you and I. I'm gonna leave it to you because I'm not gonna do it.
You should go and listen to the ends of a bunch of my podcast episodes.
[00:54:49] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:54:49] Speaker B: So for my one time guest, I, I did this with you the first time. I don't do it every time, but, but I asked two questions of all my guests and, and one of them is, what's your 15 second sound bite on leadership. The other one is tell me about a leader in your life who has had profound impact on your leadership and who you are today. Until we get stories. And I love the stories. Sometimes it's, you know, I watch my dad, he was such a hard worker and he, or, you know, it was this professor and, or it was Mahatma Gandhi and, you know, never even knew that he was my idol, but he had an impact. And just listening to the stories, I bet you, you would get, you would hear those. Yes, you would hear so many of those words just listening to those stories. Because you're right, they don't, they don't spit back at me.
Some, some, you know, airplane business book language.
[00:55:38] Speaker D: They didn't put off a profit margin.
[00:55:40] Speaker B: You know, they were strategic thinkers and they were very charismatic.
[00:55:43] Speaker D: And no nothing, ain't no spreadsheets, ain't no cfo. It ain't nothing technical.
[00:55:47] Speaker B: They were always there for.
They always made me feel important and special. No matter how big they got in the org chart, they, you know, they worked hard. They, they, they were consistent.
[00:55:57] Speaker D: They saw me.
[00:55:58] Speaker B: They saw me. Yeah, they gave me a chance.
[00:56:01] Speaker D: They gave me a chance. Yeah, they had my back. I mean, so, so the entire book is giving people the recipes that I've collected over 15 to 17 years of what had the greatest impact on who people are today.
[00:56:14] Speaker B: Oh, man, I can't wait to steal that. I mean, read that.
[00:56:20] Speaker D: Yeah, so we were going to Release that on September 19th. It's going to come out. You know, the team is working on it. But I'm really excited about the fact that sharing this. And it just came as I started watching. You know what? This is really, this is something that people need to know. This is something that people need to read. And really, it. We pulled apart every word said. What does it really mean then? If it says showed up, what does showed up?
[00:56:41] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:56:41] Speaker B: What does that look like?
[00:56:42] Speaker D: What does that look like in action? And that's one thing I've really gotten better at over careers is what does it look like?
No, people talk about our core values. I'm like, you know what my core values are? Not trust.
My. One of my core values is always show up at your as your best.
[00:56:59] Speaker B: I was working with a coachee the other day, actually.
[00:57:02] Speaker C: I take that back.
[00:57:03] Speaker B: It's one of our coaching trainees.
[00:57:05] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:57:06] Speaker B: Or graduates actually, of our, of our program who was working with a coachee who was having difficulty articulating what executive presence looks like.
[00:57:19] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:57:19] Speaker B: And so one of the goals was I want to increase my executive presence. And when this coach was trying to say, what does that mean? They didn't know how to say it.
And so we started to explore these different questions. And what we landed on was, tell me someone, anyone in your. In your world of career that you would say that person has executive presence?
[00:57:38] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:57:38] Speaker B: Okay, well, so and so.
[00:57:39] Speaker C: All right.
[00:57:40] Speaker B: And what did they do differently?
Like when you were in a room with them or when you walked down the hall?
[00:57:46] Speaker C: What.
[00:57:46] Speaker B: What was it. What was it you were seeing that made you say that's presence?
[00:57:50] Speaker E: Yes.
[00:57:51] Speaker B: And that's what it is, is what does it look like? Give me an example.
[00:57:54] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:57:54] Speaker D: At the end of the day, what's the observation experience that people have when they watch it? You know? You know, we look at companies all the time and say, yeah, that was a really nice. That were handed down. But tell me, how do I know that's what's happening without you telling me? Yeah, tell me what, like if you saying it's trust, tell me what. What are you observing that says trust, not what you're hearing?
[00:58:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:58:14] Speaker D: If they couldn't speak or that says.
[00:58:16] Speaker B: Not trust or not trust.
[00:58:18] Speaker D: What is that? What is that? What's happening in your observation that lets you know what's happening? So for me, the entire book is really, I hope, what I want leaders to walk away with is a recipe to how to be more effective at taking care of and being authentic, to have an impact. Because impact is not done in a day. It's done every day.
[00:58:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, it's. And it's done over the days.
[00:58:42] Speaker D: Over the date. Yes, over the. Patrick.
[00:58:44] Speaker B: Thank you, Ron. Man, this is awesome. See? See why he's on all the time?
All right, I'll have a new five questions for you in a couple months. We'll do it again next time. We'll do it at lunchtime, and we'll go eat Mexican food on the way out. Lead on, folks.
