Episode 129 - Applying Our Learning with Ron Harvey

[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to the Leadership window podcast with Dr. Patrick Jenks. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Each week through a social sector lens. [00:00:12] Speaker A: Patrick interviews leaders and experts and puts us in touch with trends and tips for leading effectively. Patrick is a board certified executive coach, a member of the Forbes Coaches Council. [00:00:21] Speaker B: A best selling author, award winning photographer. [00:00:24] Speaker A: And a professional speaker. And now, here's Dr. Patrick Jenks. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Happy 2025. We're there. It's my favorite time of year, New Year's, it's a little late now. It's, we're already into the second week of January and I intended to do my sort of traditional solo episode, giving a little bit of reflection on the previous year, things I'm picking up, learning, carrying into the new year. I thought, no, let me wait on that. And I'd rather be a week late and have Ron here with me. Ron Harvey is our guest today, has been on several times. He's my sort of semi regular guest. Ron serves on our advisory board here at the Leaders Perspective, but out in the world on a daily basis, he's elevating leaders through his company Global Core and Strategies and Consulting where he serves as the chief operating officer. And I'm not going to go too deep into all the history with me and Ron. You can go back and listen to previous episodes. They're generally my favorite episodes that we do throughout the year. But about once a quarter we try to get together and do a podcast and if we've got time, go eat some Mexican food and just connect. We've just become very good friends and Ron means a lot to me. He means a lot to the organization and how we've grown. Just a fantastic thought partner. I learn from him. I'm inspired by him all the time. And Happy New Year, Ron. Thanks for being here again. [00:01:57] Speaker A: Thank you. Happy New Year. [00:01:58] Speaker B: And the thing about Ron is because he's here in Columbia as well, we get to do this sort of in the studio video. This isn't a Zoom call. He's here with me and you don't get to see us sort of winking at each other and laughing and you know, all of that kind of stuff. You don't have to look at my ugly face. He has to during this. But I definitely have a face for podcasting Ron, so. But anyway, yeah, Happy New Year. How. How were, tell me how, how were the holidays? How, how are things for you? [00:02:30] Speaker A: What's going great? I mean great. I mean it slowed down enough for, for me to enjoy family, the things that, that are important and take care of your self care and just relax and pay Attention to what you've accomplished. So sitting back and just enjoying what I spent a year working on or trying to get done and just slowed down. When you're a business owner, I think you often on to the next thing and this year really slowed down. It was intentional about just enjoying what you. What we've achieved. [00:02:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Slow down. That's hard to do, man. Hear those phrases. I know. I did a little slowing down. It's funny, when you're in the work that we're in, days off are kind of different. [00:03:16] Speaker A: Yes. I don't know if they exist. [00:03:18] Speaker B: I don't know if they do, but it's the work that I do when I'm off is. Is just. I. I find myself just wanting to do it. It's not. It doesn't feel obligatory. It feels fulfilling and energy giving. [00:03:33] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't think, I don't think there's days off. I mean, for me, simply because I. I love serving in. In any given day, any, any hour throughout the day, I find myself serving in some capacity. Whether it's making dinner or whether it's putting up something or whether it's running an errand or whether it's taking a phone call or whether it's listening to someone or whether it's helping someone prepare something and do something in their business. I don't think there's a day in my life where I don't serve. [00:04:00] Speaker B: You've used a word with me throughout the years. Value. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Yes. [00:04:04] Speaker B: And adding value and contributing value. And. Which is serving when you're contributing value. And I want to talk a little bit about that today as part. Part of what I kind of have on my radar to talk through with you. But what I'd love to do, I just. I wanted to have a conversation with you around the reflection point. January 1st, an arbitrary day. I mean, we just, we call it a new year. We've built this calendar system. It's really just another day. And yet it's not. It is a time to reflect, to take inventory, to think about the future, figure out what we've learned. And so I have each year. And I've done this, man. I've done this for probably a couple of decades. Ron. Each year I. I write down accomplishments, but also learnings and reflections. And I always do it at this time of the year. I write them down. And so I've written a few of my own down, but I'd love to hear some of yours. What would you say you learned in 2024? Something you didn't know or something. You got better at what learning took place for you and or your organization in the past year. [00:05:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say the biggest learning thing that we embraced as a team, or even for me, is how valuable and important it is for us to learn how to let go and move forward with what's happening, such as AI. It was huge for us. I think we work harder than we probably needed to. We had our own suspicion of something simply because of lack of knowledge or fear or what you may read or may see. But I think we dug into AI and said where's the best way to use this without losing because people are worried about job security and how do you use it to where it's helping you do better for the people that you serve while helping the people on your team get better at using it as well. So I think AI was one of the things that stood out the most from from managing books to developing content to having conversations to understanding what's happening, to seeing what leaders are really wanted to accomplish. I think we slowed down enough and became very curious to know more about how do we leverage this to do what we really want to do, which is serve people better. [00:06:25] Speaker B: You know Bill Hudson up in Maryland, who's also on the advisory board. Bill and I connect about once a month on Zoom and have our, have our Zoom coffee. And one of the things we're going to be talking about next week when we get together is AI and we're both curious as to how the other is using it right now. Here's one of the things I found about AI or what I'm learning it is. You and I have talked a number of times about how AI won't necessarily replace us, but we'll be replaced if we don't know how to use it. [00:06:57] Speaker A: Yes. [00:06:58] Speaker B: So the, the. One of the stigmas that's around AI is how credible is it, Is it disingenuous to use AI for content or for even research and things like that? Well, now, and I don't mean to, I don't mean to geek out and get too academic here, but when I was going through my doctoral program just a few years ago, my study was done. My study was a qualitative study and it involved interviews with a number of leaders and 90 minute interviews. And in the, to, to pass the peer review and the board, there's a methodology behind a qualitative study and you had to. The interviews had to be recorded, they had to be transcribed word for word. You had use an approved qualitative data analysis software program to code the data. You actually code qualitative data. All these 90 minute interviews and the text that it generates, you now have to go through every one of those multiple times, code them, theme them, and then arrive at conclusions on what the data is telling you. You can't just have an interview and go, yeah, well here's what I kind of, there has to be a real. And so now what I'm learning is many of these software programs, including the one I used for my study, they now are integrating AI modules. [00:08:32] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:32] Speaker B: In their software to do the coding and theming for you. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:37] Speaker B: So it's. Even academia is having to say, look, this, this ship has sailed. We're not, we can't say no AI. We're going to have to be able to use the AI in our research. And so as I'm learning this and I'm seeing that these software programs are implementing this, I go to Chat GPT the other day to test it out and I used some of my, not only my doctoral study, but some of the stakeholder interviews that I do for clients and I asked Chat GPT how it would code. I used the language of the software, how it would code and theme the following. And I uploaded the data and the coding methodology that it used. The, the multi, tiered, you know, primary, secondary, tertiary and how it codes, how it picks phrases, how it themes things out were on. But they're exactly how they teach you how to do it in, in the university environment. And so my whole point is that it is, I'm finding that it's moving in a direction where I think, I think everyone's seeing it's not bad or disingenuous to use AI. You still have to use it extremely cautiously and judiciously and take it in a disciplined manner. You've got to double check it, you've got to do all that. But we're going to lose if we don't know how to implement it and use it well. [00:10:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree, Patrick. And for those that are listening, it's here to stay. I think we use it with integrity. But think about, you know, people talk about whether using is disingenuous. Well, years ago when I, you know, served in the military, we would travel and we have out this big atlas map that came out every year and everybody run to Walmart to buy them or wherever you get them from and you highlight your road map and where you're going. But now I drop it in gps, it's not disingenuous. Then I'm using AI to tell Me how to get to my destination faster. And what is telling us AI is saying how do you get to what you're trying to accomplish? Effective, honestly, faster and saving time and resources for everybody involved, stakeholders, yourself, your team. So GPS has always been AI. What we're saying now is how else do we use it to do what we're trying to do to accomplish what we're really trying to accomplish? [00:11:00] Speaker B: It's funny because the printed map is AI. [00:11:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:11:03] Speaker B: It's not the actual road, it's AI. It's a piece of paper that depicts and represents. It's like I had someone tell me when, when I, when I went to digital, when everyone went to digital photography, I had some. Oh, you know that that's just, I don't know, it's just ruining the purity of the art of photography because it's all, it's all digital now. I'm like, well what do you think? Film, what do you, how do you think that you don't think that's artificial? Like it's film. It's. Somebody figured out the technology of capturing light onto a sensor that goes onto a negative and that some chemicals would bring that light out in an opposite direction and present a picture. That's not the actual tree. [00:11:39] Speaker A: Yes. [00:11:40] Speaker B: You're not drawing it. And even if you were drawing it, that's an artificial depiction. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Yes. I think it's fear. I mean if you ask me, the number one cause for most people is two things. The integrity of it and the fear of. [00:11:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it's intimidating. [00:11:51] Speaker A: Yes, it's intimidating. And so what I've learned to do, you know, my biggest learning is not be intimidated, be curious of what else, what else can I learn? What else can it do? [00:12:02] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:12:03] Speaker A: What else can it help me solve? What other problems can it do? So I've shifted from this fear based mentality and become very curious. What else? [00:12:12] Speaker B: Oh yeah. And, and, and I don't think we'll ever get to where we've answered all the what else questions. But the, the so fear. I do think a lot of people fear it. I do. I am still very skeptical of its use in the public sphere. You can't trust virtually anything you see. [00:12:33] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:33] Speaker B: For example, social media, pictures, videos. [00:12:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:37] Speaker B: The things that they're doing now with these deep. It's just. You don't even know what you're looking at. And it's, it's crafting narrative. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Yes. [00:12:45] Speaker B: Public narrative as truth. [00:12:48] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. I think that's something that we'll continue to get better at. We'll get better at doing it and we'll have more integrity at using it. [00:12:55] Speaker B: I hope so. And I hope we get better. [00:12:57] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, when you think about it, I think that does exist. You're absolutely right. Was at a conference and literally they were putting pictures in front of us and we couldn't define or identify which one was real. [00:13:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:09] Speaker A: So that. That does exist. I think there are a lot of questions in the younger generation is going to help us figure out how to. How to maneuver and make sense of it. But in the meantime, do we get in their way because of our fear? I don't want to slow, you know, Maya's, you know, high schooler. I don't want to slow her down because I'm afraid of how it's going to be used versus, hey, we'll have to figure out the problems as well as the solutions. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So I think we're in a good place. I just don't want to be afraid of. And I think the biggest learning lesson is I'm curious and open to. What else? [00:13:41] Speaker B: Yeah. One of. One of a coach's favorite three questions. [00:13:45] Speaker A: What else? [00:13:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I'll give you the other two right now. Have to take my course. I'll give you one of my learnings. We'll just bounce back and forth. Not a learning. I mean, I've always known this, but it really resonated with me this year how small my world is. [00:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:04] Speaker B: And I mean that in a. I don't mean that any kind of, you know, diminishing it. It's just my world. Meaning my worldview. [00:14:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:14] Speaker B: My perspective, the space I fill in the world is really a speck. It's so tiny. And we could do the whole episode just on this topic. But where it really hit me or reminded me this year is, you know, I'm in a practicum, a global practicum with Dr. Peter Hawkins, who's the guru on systems and systemic coaching and things. And it is truly a global practicum. So it's all virtual. There are hundreds of us in the practicum. Very few of us are from the United States. In my small group, well, I think in my practicum there's several practicums and then in each practicum there are learning groups and in my group there are two of us from the States out of eight. And when we're not just in our small groups each week that we're together at 5 o'clock in the morning because it's global and that's the only time I Can do it is they're connecting us with coaches that aren't in our practicum too. We're working together, and I'm constantly working with people from Romania, Australia, China, Germany, I mean, South Africa, you name it. Their list literally is from all over the. I'd be surprised if they didn't have someone from every country in this thing. And one amazing thing is how everybody in there speaks English. That's amazing to me, if you think about it, because I don't speak any of their languages. And thank goodness English is more universal because I wouldn't, you know, wouldn't be. We wouldn't be able to communicate the way we do. But also, you know, while there are some accents and things, I am being reminded that what we hear or think we hear just because we hear an accent, you know, we are not. We don't have a clue. These people that I'm working with are so freaking smart. They're so freaking smart. I feel a little intimidated because some of the perspective that they have is just things I haven't. It's like, oh, yeah, wow. You know, and so I'm just realizing how small my world is. And the point to that is that that doesn't mean it's not significant. [00:16:33] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:33] Speaker B: Size. The size of your world doesn't dictate the significance of it. And so I'm accountable to steward the space I'm in and given and can influence and can. Can be in. How do I make that the best while I extend my boundaries of learning and perspective to the rest of the world? It's really. [00:16:59] Speaker A: That. [00:16:59] Speaker B: That's an intimidating thought for me, but also an inspiring one. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I think most of us find ourselves in there. It's just a matter of becoming aware of it. If. If you're really honest, it is. We are a very, very small part of our world. What do you do with it? I mean, once you're there, what do you do? And, you know, you hear me say all the time, are you adding value and making a difference? Are you taking and causing confusion? And. And I choose to be on the side of. I want to add value and make a difference. And that changes from day to day, and it makes me uncomfortable from day to day. But I'm. I've gotten to a place where I'm pretty humble about it. How do I show up to be what I'm supposed to be at this moment for the people that I'm in the space with? And. And you learn in the moment what that is, and it changes from moment to moment. Moment to moment. [00:17:58] Speaker B: Yeah, it does. [00:17:59] Speaker A: But like, what do I need from you at this moment? You know, and you and I do this show. But the beauty of us doing it is it's never a scripted. It's. It's like what do you need at this moment? What's relevant? What are the people asking for? What do we do that that adds value and make a difference? What are we doing for someone that they can't do for themselves and they can never repay us for? [00:18:17] Speaker B: Oh yeah, that's it. That's it. That last part. [00:18:23] Speaker A: So, so you. Yeah, that's the kicker because that's, that's when you become significant and significance is about us doing something for other people. It's not self serving. [00:18:35] Speaker B: You've heard me share this. I've shared it many times on the show. One of my favorite definitions of leadership, that comes from Kevin Cashman, who's a world class coach with Korn Ferry and author of one of, to this day, probably the best book I've ever read on leadership called Leadership from the Inside Out. So there's a plug. [00:18:51] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:52] Speaker B: He defined leadership as authentic self expression that creates value. [00:18:57] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:57] Speaker B: So he defined it as a three legged stool. A, it's got to be authentic. People see through the superficial eventually. Second, it has to get expressed. If it doesn't get expressed, it's not leadership. You're not influencing anything if you keep it to yourself. And the third is that expression has to create value. And that third leg of the stool is so important because we know a lot of authentic self expressors. [00:19:19] Speaker A: That's not creating value. [00:19:20] Speaker B: They're authentic. [00:19:21] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:22] Speaker B: You know, they're the people that are proud to say, well, if it comes in my head, it comes out my mouth. That's just who I am. Live with it. That's great, that's authentic. But it, it can also be destructive. [00:19:32] Speaker A: Very destructive. [00:19:33] Speaker B: And not, and not value creating. So that third leg has to be there or else it's not leadership. [00:19:38] Speaker A: Or it can be self serving. If that's what you do and you just say people got to accept it, then it's self serving. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:43] Speaker A: And that's not leadership either. [00:19:45] Speaker B: Right. Well that's another topic. [00:19:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:47] Speaker B: Because I've. Here's where my belief on that has evolved. I think we can be self serving as long as. Right? [00:19:56] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:57] Speaker B: We can't be only self serving. [00:19:59] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:59] Speaker B: I don't have, I don't have anything against self interest. We all operate self interest. So. But, but are we leveraging that self interest as a multiplier to add value to the world. That, that's the, that's the key to me. I'll give you another sort of Peter Hawkins insight that I've kind of expanded in my own head. I'll probably do one of my, one of my YouTube videos on this soon. [00:20:23] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:23] Speaker B: He talks about how when you're coaching teams, everyone wants to be a high performing team. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Right. Want to be a high performing team. He said that's not sufficient. Think about this. Performance does not equal value. [00:20:40] Speaker A: That's true. [00:20:41] Speaker B: It equals performance. [00:20:42] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:44] Speaker B: What you want is a high value creating team. That was, that was like a big deal to me when that, when that hit me. So then I thought, and I'm coming at it now. I've expanded on it just a little bit. I actually want to run this by Dr. Hawkins on our next call. I'm now seeing it in a continuum of four things. Busyness. Okay. Productivity. No, Busyness, Performance. Productivity. Value. Busyness. I mean, think, think about, think about the people at work or yourself. I'm so busy. Their desk is a mess. They're running, they're going crazy. They're always on the phone. They got emails and notes and blah, blah, blah. And the calendar and the time clock and the busy, busy, busy, busy, busy. Okay, but are they performing at a high level or is that busyness just busyness? That's like, it's not even good. It's not even good busyness. Or it's inefficient. See a lot of inefficient busyness. Busy, busy, busy. There's not another thing. I can't put add another thing to my plate. That's because you're not efficient. Usually. But then there, then there's the. From busyness to performance is. I'm performing. I've got things that are indicating to me the quality of my performance, the quality of my writing, my scheduling, my project management, my budgeting, my speaking, whatever those things are. And then there's product. And I've. I've seen leaders, I've supervised leaders who had the first two, and they had this sort of intelligence that could fool a lot of people. But you never saw product from them. Yes, it's like, what, but what are you doing? Like what. What is the result of your work? From there you go to value creation. So I'm productive. I can show you product. Here's the report. Here's the beautiful things. Here's the. Here's all that I did. What value did it create and for whom? And that is that end of that continuum is the value. And for what stakeholders? For whom are you creating that value? And. And why? So it's just sort of, I don't know, four steps. It's imperfect, but it's kind of how I'm framing things right now in my work. What, what, how does it hit you? What do you. What does it bring to your mind? [00:23:04] Speaker A: I think you, you're spot on of. Of the different layers. That's a. Attached to it, the way that you explain it. And at the end of the day, you know, it's a question that we ask ourselves and ask our team every day. What value are we creating? Like, every conversation, all the work, regardless. It's not about being a sage on the stage. It's not about being the smartest. It's not about us seeming the busiest. It's really like we measure based on value creation. We measure our company on value creation. [00:23:35] Speaker B: And who determines the client? [00:23:37] Speaker A: What? [00:23:37] Speaker B: The vet. Yeah. [00:23:38] Speaker A: The client does. [00:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And that there's. Maybe there's another layer because what we often we assume certain things are creating value. Maybe they're creating value for us. [00:23:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:23:48] Speaker B: Maybe they're creating value for our team, maybe for our board or our organization. How far out are we looking in terms of the stakeholder groups and asking, not only is this creating value, but is it creating the value that you're looking for? That you're looking for? [00:24:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's. That's important because they're. It's almost for going into a restaurant and them wanting to give you what they think is the best on their menu. And it's good, and it's good, but. [00:24:16] Speaker B: It'S not what you order. [00:24:17] Speaker A: Not what I order. It's not what I want. It's not what I have a desire for. I even have allergies to it. [00:24:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:24:22] Speaker A: So at the end of the day, restaurants have gotten better at making sure that they're creating value by asking questions based on the appetite of the person that's. [00:24:31] Speaker B: You think they've gotten better? [00:24:32] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, I watch them. I watch the modified meal. I can think 10 years ago, if you had allergies, you just didn't eat it or you just dealt with it. I guess now people will say, hey, are there other. Like, if I say, hey, I have allergies for cheese, or I have dairy allergies, or I have nut allergies, I can literally tell my waiter, hey, this has to be removed. This has to be. They will actually go back and make that modification for that. [00:24:55] Speaker B: Okay. I. I'll yeah, I'll grant that I've been lamenting for a while just about the level of care and service. [00:25:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is a whole nother conversation. I'm not saying that's better. That's not what I'm saying. Yeah. I think customer service. We're in trouble. [00:25:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I was instantly referring to that when you, when you said. But you're right. They do it and they have. They kind of. They kind of have to now. [00:25:19] Speaker A: Yeah, they do. [00:25:20] Speaker B: But they're not. They're not. They're doing it out of what the market is demanding for their survival, not out of. Or. I don't know. I'm assuming it doesn't. It doesn't always feel like they're doing it out of service. [00:25:31] Speaker A: It may be two pronged. It may be. Yeah, they're doing it out of service and what the market is asking for. But even in our organization, we're going to do it out of service. We're going to do it out what the market is asking for. We're going to make adjustments. You know, one of the things that you hear in our company is how do you get to a yes? So when. When our partners or our clients are asking for certain things, the easy answer that doesn't require any work on our behalf is no. But what I have our team stop and do and embrace forces. Hey, Patrick, let us think about that. Let us get back with you because now we want to figure out if it's possible. Curiosity. What else can we do for them? So our motto is, how do you get to a yes? [00:26:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:26:15] Speaker A: And I don't always get to yes, but if I have to come back and say no, I don't really say no. I say, hey, Patrick, this is. This isn't something we can do, but I have a great reference for you. I have someone that can do it for you. Do you mind if I pass this on to you? So that service piece of it, that see it pass me that see, I don't have to be the. The. The end all. Be all. So. But we still get to yes for that client. And one way or another, whether we deliver it or not deliver it, we figure out how to still be value creation. [00:26:39] Speaker B: It's good. What else have you learned in 2024. [00:26:47] Speaker A: To figure out another way to do it without me doing it in our organization? You know, I have a brand people will enjoy when I show up. Oftentimes they may want me to show up, but I have a team and I had to learn how to make sure that they love my team the way that they love me to allow them to deliver the same stuff that I can deliver because it wasn't sustainable for me to be the nucleus moving forward all the time. So I've embraced that this year and learned that, you know, that I enjoyed it. And for those that are listening, I know the stroke ego and who doesn't want to be needed and who doesn't want to know answers and be the person that can be the rescuer. It's not sustainable long term. [00:27:33] Speaker B: No, it's. Well, not if you want to grow. [00:27:36] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:27:39] Speaker B: So you know that we've added our first adjunct coast. [00:27:42] Speaker A: I saw that. Congratulations. [00:27:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Well. And we're thrilled about it. And Monroe was on the show a few weeks ago, sort of reintroducing him. He's been on before, but yeah, part of it is there's a lot that has to happen. [00:27:56] Speaker A: Yes. [00:27:56] Speaker B: So one, you have to have the appetite for growth and scale and say at some point this has to happen, then you have to be able to let go of some things and then you have to find the right people you can trust to let that go to. Because the first word you used was brand. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:16] Speaker B: So whoever on your team is going out, I mean this, this started out as Ron Harvey was the brand. [00:28:21] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:22] Speaker B: In many, in many places. [00:28:24] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:28:24] Speaker B: The brand still. But global core is the brand you're trying to transcend. Ron Harvey. And that's so, you know, I had a lot of, of course, a lot of trust in Monroe, known him and worked with him and you know, he's got the kind of wisdom and the right skill set behind coaching. But literally my, my business got to the point at least on the one on one coaching side. I have right now 38 one on one coachees at various stages of engagements. Those are the one on ones. These aren't the team coachings, the facilitations, the board retreats, the projects. One on one coachees have 38 right now. [00:29:00] Speaker A: Congratulations. [00:29:01] Speaker B: Well, it's great. It is great. But it's an issue when I'm trying to tell my coachees, let's work on three week rhythm and they go to schedule the next coaching call with me and I'm not available for another six weeks. [00:29:16] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:29:17] Speaker B: So now, now I'm detracting value from those that I'm trying to serve. [00:29:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:29:23] Speaker B: And so this is where having another adjunct coach, they still get the coach, they get the coaching that's on the leader's perspective, philosophy and, and construct and approach. They get someone that's trusted and certified. It might not be me. It's probably better that it's not because Monroe's really good. Right. But that requires so much trust to be able to do that. Yeah. [00:29:51] Speaker A: And lesson learned. I mean, you think about what you learned from last year. For me, there's a book called who, not what. And it speaks to what we're talking about is not what can I do for my company to be what it has potential to be, but who do I need for it to become what it can become without me getting in the way. [00:30:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:10] Speaker A: Because we'll slow it down because we don't trust it will slow it down because they don't do it the way we do it. It will slow it down because of our own insecurities and we'll slow it down because of our brand. And I told my team this morning on a call there, when we walk into an organization and I am the brand, I get it. And we're working through that. But there are some things that I have to do and the client expects it and I should. But there are 10 other things that the client doesn't expect for me to do that I should be able to let go of and let them do and still be a part of what the client is asking for. So if it's the opening and the closing, do that. Ron. But, but. And I told my team, I said, I know that people love me. I know that people, you know, the client is going to want to see a certain portion that I do, but that doesn't mean I need to do 100% of it. [00:30:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:50] Speaker A: So I had the wake up call is no. So how do you get your team in position so they can walk in the room and be. Be themselves, be authentic, be real. But there's a, for us, a culture of how we do it. I want them to understand that. And as long as my team understands that, I'm willing to be patient enough for them to be better at doing it. But there's a culture of how we do business. [00:31:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. One of the things, again, going back to, to this practicum that I'm working in is big learning for me this past year is the importance of recognizing and addressing systems. [00:31:28] Speaker A: Yes. [00:31:28] Speaker B: And not just people. [00:31:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:31] Speaker B: It is about the people, but the people make up the systems and the people create the systems. And then the people struggle and complain about the systems they've created because, you know, John isn't doing this and Susie's not doing that. And oftentimes it's not a people problem. It's a system problem or a culture problem. And I'm really, really learning that. It's a mind shift for me to coach the system through its people. [00:32:02] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it goes back for us. You're absolutely right. We are made up of systems. I mean, the entire body is a system. We're a human being. But it runs off of systems communicating and connecting. And so the body is the system itself. How do you appreciate everything that's involved in the system in a very authentic way is a. For us and for me, you know, one of the things I've always found out is. And most people that know me know that I'm. I'm a people person, and I want to see people for who they are and what they are and what value they add. I work extremely hard on making sure I see people and then I help them get into the system. [00:32:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. [00:32:39] Speaker A: And once we figure that out and I see them, I see where they fit into the system, because what I don't want them to do is be in a position inside of the system that's ineffective for them and for us. [00:32:48] Speaker B: That's right. [00:32:48] Speaker A: So I want to really understand who Patrick is way before I say, hey, let's. Let's just bring him in because he's good at this thing. There's still only a place that everybody fits within the system. [00:32:57] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I want that, too. But I want to help Patrick see. [00:33:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:33:02] Speaker B: That he's part of the system. [00:33:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:33:05] Speaker B: And that. And that there are systems that are a part of him. It's like. It's like a bicycle is a system. [00:33:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:33:14] Speaker B: Right pedals and frame and handlebars, you need them all. But. But the rider is a part of that system. [00:33:23] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:33:23] Speaker B: The roads and the road quality and the transportation system in a community, the infrastructure of a community, social and cultural norms of transportation and travel, those are all a part of the system that a bike is involved in. [00:33:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:33:40] Speaker B: And I. And I haven't even scratched the surface on it. [00:33:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:43] Speaker B: And that's what so many organizations fail to see. The system is the sis. They see the org chart. [00:33:49] Speaker A: Yep. [00:33:49] Speaker B: And they think that's the system. [00:33:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:52] Speaker B: Or they see the SOPs and think it's the system. And they think that. And. And. And they're right. But it's incomplete. [00:34:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And I totally agree. For. For those that are listening, do you understand the systems for which your organization operates? Like the system. Not. Not the org chart, not the SOPs. Like the system that if you just, you know, when you fly on an aircraft the next time, just look down and look at a community and watch all the things that make that community work. [00:34:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:20] Speaker A: And it's not just people. It's traffic, it's sewer, it's lights, it's electricity, it's AI. You know, the list just goes on, on and on. For chick fil a that everybody's used to, they recognize systems, like from. From the time you pull into their. [00:34:36] Speaker B: Property, they built a brand on it. [00:34:38] Speaker A: They built the brand on the system, entire system. And people say, well, what do they do? I say, customer service system. [00:34:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:34:46] Speaker A: Everything they do is about the me and you being happy when we come to their location. [00:34:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:34:52] Speaker A: It's an entire system. [00:34:53] Speaker B: That's a good example of how you can be people centric and system centric at the same time. [00:34:57] Speaker A: Yes. [00:34:57] Speaker B: And you have to. [00:34:58] Speaker A: You have to. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Do you have to? Well, one of the things that I. A phrase that I heard that I really love is, can you hear your system? Are you listening to your system? So you talked about the airplane view. That's seeing the system, or at least seeing one limited view of it. But can we hear it in our organizations? What do we hear on the ground that is systemic in nature? Not a cool. It's like, how do you know? My mind goes a lot of different places every time I think that. But I think a good leader is a good listener, not just to the people, but are they listening to the system? [00:35:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:33] Speaker B: Are they hearing the tones? Is there harmony? Is there rhythm? Is it syncopated? Is it. Is it artful and creative? [00:35:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. I think that helped me throughout the year. When you actually know, what are you learning? I will have to go back to what the question just asked is. I learned to listen to. To the system without knowing that that's what you were going to bring up is that I. I began to listen to what was happening in our organization because I could see it, but, you know, we said it like, slow down. Slowing down allows you to listen to the system. [00:36:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:36:07] Speaker A: Because we're busy. Let's just. I mean, the world is moving faster, and it's going to move faster. It's not going to slow down. How do you become intentional to listen to your system? Like our body? If you don't listen to your body, at some point you're going to be in somebody's medical center because you didn't listen to it. [00:36:23] Speaker B: You will hear it one day. [00:36:24] Speaker A: You'll hear it one day. Yes. So. So when you think about it, you're exactly right. Our body does speak to us, but we don't always listen. [00:36:30] Speaker B: Yeah, another good analogy there. Another good one. Here's something else that's affirmed for me. So learning for me is. I mean, it's. It's evolutionary, so it's not like. It's not always a first. Like I've learned it for the first time. But you learn it at a deeper level, some things. And that is that we control our feelings. [00:36:51] Speaker A: Feelings, absolutely. [00:36:56] Speaker B: To. To some degree. Yes. External forces play upon our lives and elicit thoughts and feelings that maybe in the very beginning are. Are a little bit out of our control. [00:37:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:37:10] Speaker B: How we handle those, package them, store them, eliminate them, feed on them, handle them, is on us. And I'm reminded again that the energy and the bandwidth that people take from you, they didn't take it from you. [00:37:33] Speaker A: You gave it to them. [00:37:34] Speaker B: You gave it to them. [00:37:35] Speaker A: Yes. [00:37:36] Speaker B: So who. Who gets my bandwidth? That's something I get to choose. I get to choose. You've chosen today that I get some of your bandwidth. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:37:46] Speaker B: That's a. That's a choice you made. And that's a. That's just. I want to throw that out as a reminder because it's very, very powerful. I coach people all the time who, you know, I just. [00:37:59] Speaker A: This. [00:37:59] Speaker B: And it makes me feel this. And they made me feel this way, and this makes me feel this way. Like that. That. That phrase makes me feel a certain way. Rubs me weird. [00:38:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:10] Speaker B: Like, it's like. Does it make you feel that way or do you allow it to generate that feeling which leads then to a belief? [00:38:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's. I think it's in them both. You know, as I was processing what we're going to do going into 2025, and I'm really intentional about looking forward. One of the things that keep resonating for me is the belief I have about what that thing is. And whatever that belief is, am I willing to do the work to get it done? And once I'm willing to do the work to get it done, who do I need to support me? [00:38:59] Speaker B: Am I creating a system that allows me to get the work done? [00:39:02] Speaker A: But it starts with a belief of something. And for me is, you know, I've had times where I believed in something, but the minute it got harder, it got difficult. My belief system shrunk some because I versus I felt it was delayed. I felt I was actually deterred. And oftentimes because it didn't happen, at that moment, I got discouraged and I lose some of my belief and I have to go Back to the system of, do you actually believe that this thing is for you? Are you willing to work to get it done? And can you build a system to get it done? So I go back to my belief, and so anything that I want to get accomplished, I got to start with me. What do I believe? Like, authentically believe, regardless of all the noise around me. [00:39:47] Speaker B: And do you really believe it? Believe it? [00:39:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:51] Speaker B: You really. Or is it something you want to believe? You think you're supposed to believe it. You've been taught to believe it. But I hear people sometimes talk about what they believe and their actions, the work. Say they don't really believe it, which. [00:40:06] Speaker A: Is the work for us. You think we've been in business now, we're going on 11 years, and I can remember that I. I wanted to start a company. And when I. When we got ready to, you know, I was moving from a federal job and get ready to start a company, Linda looks at me, she says, why don't you start this company you've been talking about? My belief system was tested immediately. She says, you've been talking about it. Why don't you start this company you've been talking about? I'm like, well, yeah, honey, here, we're going to do this. He said, no, no, this is what you've been talking about. I need to see you go first. Put in the work. [00:40:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:41] Speaker A: Build the system. [00:40:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:42] Speaker A: Eleven years later, because she encouraged me to. To go on my belief, even when I was doubting and nervous and afraid and intimidated by it. It is. But it worked because I believed in it and I just kept doing the work. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Leads to commitment. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:00] Speaker B: So if the belief is real and it leads to a commitment, then state the commitment. Once that commitment's made, do it. Right. [00:41:08] Speaker A: It's the new year. Think about how many people will. And I'm not a, you know, a New Year's resolution guy, but how many people do have them? If you believe in them, by what time of the year does that stop being active? [00:41:19] Speaker B: There's research on that. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Yes, there's research. Yeah. I mean, so it's. [00:41:22] Speaker B: It's this Friday. Yes, it is. It's the second Friday. The research says that by the second Friday of January, it's called Quitters Day. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Yes. [00:41:31] Speaker B: There's a commercial out that's on tv. Yeah. Yeah. There's a commercial that says, look it up. I looked it up. I'd never heard of it. [00:41:36] Speaker A: I'd never heard of it. [00:41:38] Speaker B: It's such a thing. It's like a thing. It's a. It's quitters day, and it's this Friday. And so. So, yeah, if you know, why is that 10 days? [00:41:47] Speaker A: How strong is your belief about it? [00:41:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:50] Speaker A: So when you're thinking about what. What we're discussing for people that are listening at beginning of the year, how strong is your belief about this thing that you say that's important, that are you willing to commit and work for it and put it in. Right. And let people hold you accountable? [00:42:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that. That's. You put it out there. You put it out there, make yourself. Make yourself accountable, become vulnerable. By the way, it strikes me what great advertising that is, that we know what quitters day is, but we. We don't. Neither one of us remember what the product is that they were advertising. [00:42:17] Speaker A: But I don't remember what they were advertising. [00:42:20] Speaker B: I remember it. Next time I hear it, let me. Let's. Let's start to wind this down. Let me just ask, is there anything else that you reflect on from 2024 or that you're committed to pursuing in 2025 as a practice? [00:42:37] Speaker A: Yeah, for me, I think what. Something else that just, you know, towards the end of the year that just showed up for, for me and for the organization is two things. One is, why not me? If it can be done, why not me? And then the second thing that you hear me say all the time, but I've invested more and became more focused on it, is the value of social capital. And it's hit me like a ton of bricks as I look at our organization, as I look at anything that I've accomplished, as much as I'm a student, as much as I've learned, as much as I invest in training and professional development, I will tell you, sitting here, and for the people that are listening, if it was not for the social capital of what other people thought of me, it would have been a much tougher climb. Yeah, it just would have been. I'm not saying I would. I wouldn't have achieved it. I think it would have took. It would have taken me longer. It had been more frustrating, certainly. [00:43:36] Speaker B: The Runway's longer. Yeah, the Runway is longer. You know, you. Anyone that's. Well, anyone. I share the experience. My success in this happened in the very beginning, which was I had a network to build on to start with, and that was built through social capital. Yes, it's continued to be leveraged throughout the last eight years for us, but it's in that beginning stage, most entrepreneurs say, you know, I'm going to start with the network. I have and build from there. [00:44:03] Speaker A: Yeah. For us, it helped us. You know this phrase that I use, that's who's, who's sending your name in a room that you wish to be in that you're not currently in. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:13] Speaker A: And that come from, from clients, that come from coaching, that come from training. You know, we look at our market share and if people are looking for leadership and they're looking for coaching and looking for professional development in all industries, who sent our name in the rooms that we're currently not in that we wish to be in? And it goes back to the who. Not what we know what we're doing, but who can help us get to be able to do it. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:36] Speaker A: And so our social capital is one of the things that's going to be a driving force for our organization is we're going to remain curious for the entire 2025 and we're going to continue to extend and build on social capital more than ever before. [00:44:49] Speaker B: Wow. We're thinking along some of the same, same tracks. I got some things to talk to you about at lunch when we go eat some tacos. Here's the last thing I'll leave with. And that is I leave 2024 knowing I can do better. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:07] Speaker B: And I can be better. And one of the questions I often ask is, did I bring my best to this today? Really? Did I bring my, Could I have done it better? You know, almost probably more often than not, the answer is I could have done that better. [00:45:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:24] Speaker B: Not. There are times when I said, man, I later I laid it all out there. Right. Didn't leave any. But if you give it enough deep thought, I usually come up with something I could have done better, could have prepared earlier and had more, deeper, deeper thing. I could have been more present. I could have, whatever that is, I can, I can do better. Whether it's in a moment or it's over a course of time, a week, a month. How disciplined am I around my habits, my, my, my busyness, my, my productivity, my performance, my, my value creation and just always left with strive for better. I can be better. I can do better. I, I, I like to say I'm bringing my best, but it's just a pause to go, am I though? [00:46:15] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the, the caveat to that, for you, for, for me, as I listen to you, and I say this in rooms all the time, whatever you did yesterday, even, even if it was your absolute best that day, the world is expecting you to be better tomorrow. [00:46:28] Speaker B: Yeah. That's good. [00:46:29] Speaker A: So your best today must Be better tomorrow. [00:46:31] Speaker B: That's good. [00:46:32] Speaker A: It's expected. [00:46:32] Speaker B: I feel better. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, and I say that sincerely. When you go to Cheers, if they gave great service today, tomorrow. [00:46:38] Speaker B: You're right. [00:46:38] Speaker A: I actually elevated. [00:46:39] Speaker B: The expectation goes up. [00:46:40] Speaker A: The expectation goes up. And so I will say that there are times when I do my best, but my team knows this. I will tell you. Thank you. You did a phenomenal job. I want more tomorrow. [00:46:49] Speaker B: You know what? That. That is actually, that does resonate, because in this case, it's me expecting more of myself. [00:46:56] Speaker A: Yes. [00:46:57] Speaker B: Yeah. That's good. [00:46:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And the. What I'll close with for. For me and for people that are listening, you know, I. I kind of reflect on if people had to say or speak of who I am as a person, what do I want them to say about me? [00:47:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:13] Speaker A: And it was. It was my character, like, what. Not the work I do, not how well I can be on stage, you know, not. Not the people. Like, what would they say about me as a human being? [00:47:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, you know, we've all heard, you know, what. What would our eulogy sound like? Yes. [00:47:32] Speaker A: Thank you, Patrick. [00:47:33] Speaker B: Oh, man. Thank you. Always. I see. I just. I want to go another hour, but we can't. Ron's got stuff to do. So do I, and so do you. Happy New Year, everyone. I, as. I, as. I love to say have a great year. Make a great year. So much of it, most of it. It's on you. You can do it. Lead on.