Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Welcome to the Leadership Window podcast with Patrick Jinks. Each week, through a social sector lens, Patrick interviews leaders and experts and puts us in touch with trends and tips for leading effectively.
Patrick is an LSI certified leadership coach, a member of the Forbes Coaches Council, a best selling author, award winning photographer, and professional speaker.
And now here's Patrick.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Everyone. Welcome to the Leadership Window podcast. This episode is super exciting. Gonna talk to an old friend and colleague. Well, she's not old, but we go back a little ways and we're really excited about this one.
Stacy Stewart is our guest today. She is the president CEO, actually. She'll probably. Yeah, she's the president and CEO of the March of Dimes. She is their fifth president and that is as of January of 2017. And that's a big role, folks. We're talking about the big organization, the March of Dimes. She heads the organization that is leading the fight for the health of all moms and babies. We've all heard of the March of Dimes for many, many years. Household brand name. Stacy's going to tell us probably some things about the march of Dimes that we did not know, and I'm interested in hearing some of that. But as the president and CEO, we're talking leadership. She's responsible for all aspects of the organization's strategy and vision and operations.
And that's a big job. She came to the march of Dimes from another household, brand name, the United Way worldwide. And there she served as the US president, leading the national efforts in education, revenue growth, health, brand recognition. Stacy is a business veteran with an extensive background in leadership and in finance. And she has held a number of senior roles at organizations like Fannie Mae and Merrill Lynch. Pryor, McLendon, just the list goes on. And for some reason, Stacey is always in the big organizations. She is quite the leader and she has a master's of business administration finance from the University of Michigan. And I'm not going to go on. She has got a whole lot of other like honorary degrees and experience that she can tell you about if she wants to. But I want to get to the content. Currently, she also serves on a number of boards nationally and in the Washington, DC metropolitan area and on this program and on our YouTube channel. We talk a lot about the nuances between the executive leaders or the staff leaders and the board leaders. And one of the things that Stacy, I think, brings to this show and to her leadership, the value she brings is that she is very familiar with both sides of that equation. The board leadership, the staff leadership, Stacey and her husband, Jarvis, reside in the DC metro area with their daughters, Madeline and Savannah, and I love seeing them on Facebook and everything that's going on there. Stacey, I'm super excited about you being on the program. We worked together in, in some areas in our days with United Way, and I've just always respected and admired you, and I have been really looking forward to this episode. Welcome.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: Well, thank you, Patrick. And it's really great to be with you again, too. And we certainly had a lot of good times at United Way and doing a lot of great work in communities, so. And I'm just so impressed and admire how you have continued to evolve with your strengths. I mean, your strength was always around leadership, and how you've taken your focus and your expertise around leadership to the next level is really impressive. So congratulations.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Well, right back at you. Everything you just said, it's been really neat to watch your journey as well. And I think it would be good to start with. I know I experienced this at United Way. People who are under, who are familiar with the brand of an organization like United Way, March of Dimes, Red Cross, you name the really, the big brand names in the sector, you think you know who they are, you think you understand them. But I know from my days in United Way that people actually knew very little about what we were doing, and I'm imagining there's a degree of that with the march of Dimes. What do you find yourself telling people about the march of dimes that you find that they actually don't know?
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah. No, it's exactly right. I mean, we know these legacy organizations. We know them by name, but we don't always remember what they do, but we always feel really good about them. I think in many ways, at least, people, if you're older than 50 now, if you're in your twenties right now, you may be totally clueless about what any of these organizations do.
But, you know, when we talk about the social sector and the civic sector, it's really important to understand that this country was really built not just by government, not just by the private sector, but by the nonprofit sector as well. That sort of filled in the gaps, right, between what government was able to do and what the private sector does. And at the march times, it's the same as it was with United Way. We're an organization that somewhat referred to as a legacy. I like to think of it as just a historically important institution. We were founded by President Franklin Roosevelt in 1938, which, by the way, makes this the second organization I've worked for that was started by President Roosevelt. The first was Fannie Mae, and that was started during the New Deal.
But this organization was really founded to address the polio crisis. And I think a lot of folks and a lot of listeners may know that, that President Roosevelt was afflicted with polio himself and really issued a call to action for the entire country to get involved as a collective effort to raise the money, fund the research that would then help doctor Salk and other scientists discover the vaccine for polio, which is really one of the greatest public health successes that we've had in this country, to completely eradicate polio in this country. And, of course, we know it would be eradicated around the world, but for access, especially in poor countries and poor areas around the world. So it's really kind of an honor. And I'm the, as you mentioned, I'm the fifth president of March of Dimes. I'm the first African American to lead this organization.
And, you know, I think it's just, it's been an incredible honor to now lead it from the days of polio.
Once that kind of got solved, we then moved on to issues around birth defects for children. So we're still always very focused, as it still is today, on babies, newborn babies, and children and children's health. Today, though, what we do is we focus, and have been focused over the past couple decades or so on the issue of premature birth, which a lot of people don't really know and understand how devastating premature birth is. These are babies that are born too sick or too soon, and it is the leading cause of death. Premature birth and the consequences of premature birth are the leading causes of death for children between the ages of zero and five. And so this issue of premature birth, which affects about 400,000 babies every year, has been increasing every single year in this country for the past now, soon to be five years. And that's a big area that we're focused on at the March of Dallas. But as under my leadership over the last few years, we've gotten even clearer that while we do want to find the underlying causes of premature birth, we have to understand that the health of the mother can have a big influence on the health of the baby. So really, when we look at the work of the March Times today, it's really around maternal health and infant health and trying to think about how we can improve outcomes for both.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Well, I love it because we talk a lot, you know, this, I remember again, back, back to my United Way days. A lot of, there's a lot of focus on early childhood, early childhood development, early childhood education. You know, we get drilled into our brains that 90% of our brains are developed by the time we're age five and how that first year, those first year health milestones are so important. And when organizations get into this work.
I've been a part of so many chicken and egg conversations. Well, it starts at early childhood. Well, no, it actually starts at the parents of the baby. Right. The mother. It starts there. Well, yeah, but, you know, it started when she was a baby. And so what I finally came to figure out is, you know, when people say, well, where's the starting point? I think it's wherever you can jump in and make an impact. And so there are organizations that are focused on post birth and, you know, all the way up to, you know, four and five year olds and pre k education.
You are focused, I'm sure, on a number of other things. But what you just said is, yeah, it's on the health of the mother even before she has the baby. Maybe even before she becomes pregnant with the baby.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: Yes, before she's pregnant.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: Yeah. So chicken and egg. But, yeah, it's, it's jump in where you. Where you can make an impact, and we're a core competency can make a difference.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, I mean, you're right. I mean, it's a, you know, we live in a continuous loop of life, right. So if you want to start changing outcomes for, you know, any group of people, for people in general, for communities, just start where you can, because any starting point is going to need a lot of help, most likely.
And it certainly is true for women's health and for the health of babies.
You know, we choose to start at really helping to make sure that women, young women, really understand how to manage their health, how to deal with chronic health challenges, which we have far too prevalently in this country. And, you know, a lot of those outcomes around women's health, obviously, not only does it impact them, but it also impacts, you know, their babies and their families as well. And I think it's really interesting because a lot of our work has to do with looking at, you know, the overall condition of women in this country. And what we know is that, you know, we have a disproportionate impact on when we look at, on women of color, when we look at the information and we see that black women, for example, are three to four times more likely to die because of pregnancy and childbirth, this didn't start anew. In fact, I posted on my Instagram marcher Dime CEO, if anybody wants to follow me on Twitter or Instagram, I posted just yesterday that in 1917, we were still, we were still leading in the number of maternal deaths as compared to other highly advanced countries. Today, we still are the most dangerous developed nation in the world in which to give birth because of our high rates of maternal death and maternal mortality morbidity, which have doubled over the past 25 years, whereas in every other highly industrialized country, they've been declining.
And when you look at why that is, it's hard to ignore the fact that we've had, you know, generations now of women, especially women of color, who have not been well served by a healthcare system, and that is having an impact on them and their babies as well. So that's a lot of what we look at, is history becomes very important. And when you really examine the data, you really find a whole story around what's really going on. And that always points us in the right direction of what we can then do to address those challenges.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: Well, I want to talk about data a little bit more in a few minutes because it's a critical thing, but you're already really sort of touching on it. There's a, virtually every organization I'm working with in strategic planning is talking right now about equity and particularly race equity. And we're talking about everything from poverty to early childhood to lots of conversation on health equity and what's happening there. We've even seen the data that's coming out of the pandemic and how communities, african american communities, are more volunteers, vulnerable. And, and what, what a lot of people don't realize is even after you show the data, that shows, okay, here's the gap. I was with a foundation the other day that was talking about third grade reading levels in their community, and you had the, you had the white kids and you had the hispanic kids and you had the african american kids, and the gap was, you know, 30 points difference. And so you look at it and you go, wow, okay, that's illuminating. And I think people data is powerful because it opens people's eyes. But then the question becomes, why? Why is that the case? What are, like, the underlying sort of things in, in that? So if you could just maybe talk a little bit. I know we want to get to, you know, the topic of leadership, but part of leadership is being able to state the case, obviously. What, why is it when you mentioned these differences between, you know, black women and white women or other women in terms of these health indicators, what would you say are the one or two sort of keys to why that is, because that's powerful to get people going.
[00:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I think, you know, Patrick, I'm a student of history. I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm anywhere. I'm not literally a student. I just love history.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:57] Speaker A: And I do try to understand it more because I think when we understand history, it becomes less confusing or. Or it helps us to put into perspective why we are in the position that we're in today.
You know, I went to a couple. I have two girls, as you mentioned, and I took one of them to spring on spring break to Louisiana. A couple years ago, we went to one of the plantations outside of. Way outside of New Orleans that you could tour and really see what life was like on a southern plantation. And, you know, as an african american family, it's a. You know, it's always a very moving, you know, experience.
We looked at one of the slave cabins that had been re. All the slave cabins were sort of. Had become little mini museums to tell a little bit of some part of the history of what. What plantation life was like. And that was. There was one of the cabins that had been remade into sort of an expose about health on the. On this. On the plantation during the times of slavery, and it had little bottles on the wall that indicated the leading causes of death for those slaves living on the plantation during the times of slavery. And I was really shocked to see that one of the leading causes of death was childbirth. And here I am, the lead of the head of the March time still, you know, 100, and, you know, some years later, 150 years later, so, still working on these issues of maternal death, especially among black people, and then, you know, enslaved and then formerly enslaved people.
You know, one of the things that I think we have to understand in this country is the history of how we got to this place. Right.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: We have to. If anyone's ever listened to the 1619 project or listened to that podcast, which is amazing, you know, to understand that the American Medical association lobbied actively against universal health care, and that's in part, why we don't have universal healthcare today, how we dismantle things around reconstruction after slavery, and how we never provided adequate, affordable access to care for formerly enslaved people, and how that's limited many, many other millions of people who are not formerly enslaved from accessing affordable health care as well. I won't go through a lot of that history beyond saying all that, but I will say that we have never, in this country laid a foundation to make sure that the lives and the values, the value around people's life really is put into action.
We've always allowed these conversations around access to healthcare and access to high quality education to be shaped in part by one's income level or one's race.
We can go through a litany of different ways in which we've limited the growth and opportunity for people of color with even things around redlining and housing. I mean, there's a whole litany of different things that we've done in this country that have actually prevented many, many people in this country from attaining and optimizing their own lives. And that shows up then in our healthcare system, that shows up in our education systems, it shows up in even the criminal justice systems and things like that. So part of what I've been. It's interesting. When I got to the march of dimes again, what did I do? I went and read some history, right? Because that's what I love to do. And I was really shocked, and I was so thrilled. You know, we know all of the work that President Roosevelt has said. I have to give a lot of credit to Eleanor Roosevelt, because I think she had a lot to do with a lot of these things, too. But I was really proud to see that. When the March of Dimes was started, we had a man by the name of Charles Bynum, who would probably be known as a chief diversity officer, but he was hired in the forties, and he was the one that forged relationships with Tuskegee Institute at the time. Now Tuskegee University in Alabama, historically black college in Alabama, where scientists, black scientists at Tuskegee, helped in some of the scientific work that doctor Salk was working on. He was the one who helped to create a rehabilitation facility similar to Warm Springs. Remember, this was during segregation. Black people could not go to warm springs like President Roosevelt had done for rehab services if they were afflicted with polio. So this man, Charles Bynum, and my predecessor, Basil O'Connor, created a replica, another warm springs like rehab facility for black people at Tuskegee.
And then the last one to say is that in the clinical trials, we're talking a lot in this pandemic around clinical trials and vaccines, and who's included, and will it work for everybody? Well, during the polio vaccine clinical trials, black people were as much a part of those clinical trials as white people were. And that was because the march Dimes insisted that if a vaccine is going to be made available to everybody, it has to work for everybody.
And that is what we're talking about when we talk about health equity, what has to work for one group of people or one or one community has to work for everybody. Otherwise, it doesn't work for anybody. That's all we're talking about, right? That if, that if the vaccine doesn't work for black and brown people in this country, we will have coronavirus that will continue to affect other people as well. That is the nature of public health. So when you come up with solutions around education or housing or financial stability or in my case, maternal infant health, it has to work for everybody. And that, to me, is what I am intent on doing as the leader of the march of dimes, is I'm not going to work on something if it doesn't work for everybody. Everybody is in this fight, and everybody has to fight for the health of all moms and babies, not just some, but all of us. And our work won't be complete until all moms and babies are healthy. That's the way we see this work. That's why I lead what I, and that's why I do what I do, and that's where I get my inspiration from. And actually, you know, the fact that this is a part of our history makes me even more proud to work and to lead this organization today.
[00:20:17] Speaker B: Boy, I can hear the pride and the passion and the knowledge behind this. And you, you sum it up perfectly with the word history, I think, where people, where even good intentioned people but ignorant people fall short, is linking history to today. In other words, a lot of people say, yeah, the word history speaks for itself. It's in the past. You know, you like today's different? Well, what we don't, what a lot of people don't realize is some of it's not different. First of all, still, and even the parts that are different, it's brand new different. Like, I read a, there was an article a couple months ago in the New York Times about a living child of a slave alive today. It blew my, like, I read the headline and went, wait a minute. How's that possible? Wait, how? I'm starting to do the math. He's in his nineties and when his father was a child in slavery and, but he's alive today, and he remembers some of the stories that his father told him about their experience as slaves on a plantation.
And in, in his case, very fortunately. And I think this is probably the case for, for a lot. You know, his father instilled in him his entire, you know, interview for the article was about the pride of being an American and how his father instilled in him, you got to go make this happen.
I wish I could remember the name right now, but it blew my mind. This is, there is at least a person alive today in the United States whose parent, whose father was a slave. So we're not talking that long ago. We act like it's thousands of years ago, and then you go just, just a few decades ago into the civil rights movement. This, this is just like, we're just getting started in a lot of ways. And I've been on my own educational journey around this more so recently since the conversations have rightfully been elevated. But, yeah, now you're, if I understand right, your father was in the civil rights movement in Atlanta, head of the NAACP there. Am I right?
[00:22:39] Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: So how much? Now, you mentioned being the first african american leader of the March of Dimes. You probably have a number of firsts in your life as it relates to that. Just tell us a little bit about your leadership journey. How has all this shaped your leadership philosophy and culture and value, starting with where you were brought up and what you learned about leadership early on?
[00:23:06] Speaker A: Well, you know, I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia, and I grew up where, as you mentioned, my father was a physician. Actually, his day job was being a physician. He practiced medicine in Atlanta for 50 years. My mother was, by training a pharmacist. That's how they met the doctor and the pharmacist.
But she was, I wouldn't say but she was a stay at home mom for early on in my sister's life and my life. And then later on, she became the first african american woman to lead the Atlanta Fulton County League of Women Voters, which was a pretty historic thing at the time. This would have been in the seventies.
And then she ran for office in the early eighties and served as on the Atlanta City council for 13 years. She chaired the finance committee, which was the most powerful position on the Atlanta city council. And then she ran for mayor unsuccessfully in 1993. But she ran for mayor, was one of the first african american women to run for mayor, with being paved the way for mayors like Shirley Franklin and Mayor Kesha Lance bottoms, current mayor of Atlanta.
So I had some really good, I think just from my early days in my own house, some really good examples of two people who committed themselves to their professional lives. But through their actions and through the way they live their lives, really set an example for me that leadership in your professional life just isn't enough, you know, that you have to go beyond that. You have to do more than just that. And especially if you're black in Atlanta at the time. You know, there were so many needs. Right? There were so many needs. And you, we couldn't afford to be selfish enough to just think about, you know, making money for our own household. We had to think about how do we improve and work on the needs of a broader community.
And that was true of a lot of my other families that my family was friends with. Of course, you know, having grown up in a city where you have John Lewis and Martin Luther King and CT, Vivian and a whole bunch of people like that, you can't help but sort of be inspired by leadership every, every which way you turn, right.
It's all around you. So I had some really good experiences and good examples of what that looked like. And I knew very early on in my career that I would want to spend my time, of course, getting well educated and pursuing a professional career, but always knew that even my career would have to have a broader impact than just what, how it benefited myself. And that's kind of how my career and my leadership has sort of evolved over time. And it's also why, Patrick, I think it's really interesting that I've always had a focus on not just being in an organization, but leading it. I don't know. I feel like I've always had this innate sense that if I was going to have the broadest impact possible, that I would have to lead the organization that I was working in.
And I've been fortunate enough to now be the president's CEO for the third time now of a major national or global organization. And it's really, you know, every time I've had a leadership opportunity, I've always learned something both about what it takes to lead and, you know, in my own leadership style, even leading through crises like a pandemic right now or. I was the president CEO during 911 of the Fannie Mae Foundation.
I was at Fannie Mae and leading our, the foundation and then leading in our, in the company through the housing crisis in 2008. So, you know, one of the things I've also learned is that, you know, leadership isn't just holding the position. You have to be able to adapt, and you have to be able to adjust to a changing time, and, and there's no time that's ever perfect to do anything.
You just have to kind of jump in. It's kind of like that. We're just talking about a third grade reading. Where do you jump in and change this? Well, you got to just jump in and change things where you can. Right.
And make the best decisions you possibly can with the best people around you, with the best, best information that you have available to you, because no teams ever perfect. You're not perfect. No data and information is ever perfect. So you just have to go with the best that you have and then adjust and evolve from there.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: That's good. And that's been a theme on this show already, the perfect being the enemy of good.
And also, I think what you're talking about when you say leadership has to go beyond your, your profession or your job. It's service is what I heard. You know, your parents, I mean, it's no wonder that you have this bent on being the leader in the organization. Your parents left quite a mark on that. So that's amazing.
You also mentioned national and global leadership. How is that any different from local leadership? What are you finding to be both the keys and maybe some of the challenges about leading a global effort versus leading a local effort? Where is it the same? Where is it different?
[00:28:17] Speaker A: Well, I think it is. You know, obviously there's a degree of scale.
You know, I think leadership is, there's some things that are fairly similar irrespective of the scale of the effort that you're leading.
You know, there are qualities to leaders that are just genuine characteristics that I think kind of define a lot of great leaders.
And you find them whether you're in a small nonprofit, in a community, whether you're in leading a city or a president or, you know, a national leader in other, in other respects, you know, but I would say that it's, you know, a lot of the things that are so interesting about leading on a global scale is that you find that there are so many similarities. When you look at issues across countries, there certainly are a lot of differences, a lot of unique challenges that different. That exist in different countries. But what you find is that people often share the same aspirations for their own communities. And when, as a leader, one of the things that I've always found is that being a leader is both setting an example and setting a vision and setting a direction, but also really understanding when to listen and learn and allow others to be a part of those solutions as well. Right.
It's not the kind of autocratic approach that we see in some countries. It's sort of this way of building camaraderie, a way of building connection that I think gives leaders the best chance of success. And, I mean, we've seen this a lot in Patrick, you remember from our days at United Way, and we certainly are approaching this work the same way at the March Dimes today, that the way that we lead in communities of the March of Dimes has a lot to do with whether or not we're really good at convening partners, whether or not we're good about bringing partners across different sectors together to work on things together. No one sector and no one entity and no one leader and no one organization can ever solve these very complex, in our case, very complex health challenges or social challenges. And if we're gonna lead on this, it means that we're gonna have to be, we're gonna need to provide enough platform for everybody to stand on the leadership stage together. Right.
And that's kind of what it's looked like for me. And again, that's whether it's at a global level or national level or in a community, because the issues that we face around maternal infant health sounds like, oh, yes, well, let's just solve preterm birth. But when you start to look at, well, there are, like, ten different reasons and factors that influence a baby's health and whether or not a baby's born too sick or too soon, you realize very quickly, if you're smart enough, that you don't have all the solutions in your back pocket, other people have resources and tools and solutions, and you need them with you. Otherwise, you're not going to get things done. It's part of why a lot of us are so frustrated by what we see in Congress today. It's like no party and no committee and no one member of Congress can solve all this. And, you know, trying to run on a platform that says you're going to go to Washington to solve these things. Well, no, you're not.
If you don't learn how to work with other people and work across the aisle, too, by the way. So, you know, I think, you know, we all yearn for a day when we can really look at our leaders and say, show us how you exemplify, you know, compromise and listening and empathy and those kinds of things, because those are the tools that allow us to link arms together and fight the big fights that we have, whether it's around climate change or maternal infant health or, you know, inadequate education.
It's really only going to happen when we link arms together and when we decide that we're not going to separate ourselves from each other but actually see ourselves in a collective boat together. I think that's really important.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: Well, and we're the ones that are going to have to do that, because you're right, our politicians are not exactly leading the way and guiding us in how to do that really well. And part of it is, you know, politicians, everybody wants credit for whatever good is happening. You know, I want credit for this. Well, and it used to, you know, to it, to some degree, it's still that way in the nonprofit sector. I think it used to be more, but I think today it's like, no, it can't be about. That was the Ronald Reagan quote that he kept on his desk. There's no limit to what a man can do or achieve if he doesn't care who gets the credit. You know, we have to apply that. And because you're right, the changes we're trying to make are we are only part of an ecosystem, and we, you know, it's gonna. It's not even just other organizations that have to partner. It's everything. It's the political system, it's the neighborhoods, it's the faith community, it's organization, it's business. It's. Everybody has to play a part in that. So I.
I think that's really good perspective, and I love hearing it from someone who has experienced both that local and global aspect of it. I want to talk about data again. One of the things that I'm finding, I'm in a doctoral program right now in organizational leadership, and you can't go through a doctoral program without getting a real appreciation for data. I've always had an appreciation for it.
I think it's compelling. It makes a case, it informs. It just does so many wonderful things.
In fact, one of my most fulfilling and fun and rewarding things was when you called me and said, hey, Patrick, we need to do some metrics work in the United Way network.
Would you lead this task force and the work we were doing there to say, okay, what business are we in? Okay, well, we're about mobilizing people. What is mobilize? Well, it means we want them to give to us. We want them to advocate for us. We want them to volunteer for. Okay, how do you define that? How many givers do we have? How many advocates do we have? Let's measure what we're doing, because otherwise we're just making a lot of assumptions about we're good or we're resting on a brand name.
So just talk about the importance of data in your work or any leader's work from the leaders perspective. We talk about vision and inspiration and all these things. But now we got to get down into data. We're actually leading something real, and it has to be, we got to know where we're going. Talk about how that shows up in your work.
[00:35:08] Speaker A: Well, you know, I think it's such a good question, and it's this reliance on data, for me, has always been really important.
One, because I think people, in the absence of real data, make very subjective and often really flawed decisions on a range of different issues and topics that affect everyday lives and affect organizations. And in order for us to be as strategic as possible and as effective as possible, I think it's really important not to be swayed by our own sometimes very limited views of the world that then steer us in the wrong direction. I think it's really important to be realistic about what really is going on in the world so that we can actually, you know, react in a timely way and invest in the things that are really going to make a difference. I mean, for us, at the March of dimes, we have a perinatal data center that pulls data from every state in the country and territories and looks at, you know, the real outcomes around maternal infant health. And I think we use it as a tool, not that people often get super excited about data, but, you know, we use it as a tool to start the conversation with different folks, to remind them of not only what a sense of urgency we all should have around maternal infant health, but then what are the potential solutions that we could be working on? And that's been really important during this pandemic, for example, where we really decided that we needed to really understand more about what's really, how this pandemic has been affecting women and pregnant women, how we could look at that in a more timely, real time basis to sort of help to steer communities, to address some of the more short term opportunities.
But one of the things I found at the March of Dimes is that we've had to do a ton of investing in our infrastructure, right, to be able to do this.
When I look at companies like Amazon or Google, and I know we're all a little bit freaked out by the amount of data that these companies collect on us individually. And I think it's, you know, we all rightfully ought to be concerned about it and from a privacy perspective.
But you can't argue at the pure genius of looking at people's behaviors and sort of understanding and being able to predict what will happen or what they may choose to buy in the future or how they may choose to behave or what vacation they may want to go on based on their behavior and based on their selections. And I think part of what we're trying to do at the March times is how can we use, not exactly those kinds of tools, necessarily, but how can we get real time data analytics on maternal and infant health so that we can be much more predictive, much more of us in a reactionary mode around these things, but start to be a lot more proactive.
Where will births in this country happen over the next 1020 years? You know what, based on what we know now, what can we start to predict in terms of what women are likely to need, especially if babies, the majority of babies today are babies of color. What will that mean for this country if we have a lack of access? For many of those families, those are the kinds of data analytics that we are trying to incorporate. The march of dimes. It's both on what I would call the business side of things or our mission, our impact, but also in terms of, you know, who's getting involved in this work, who's giving to the march times, and why we need to understand that better. If we understand that better, why people are excited with our mission, why they get involved, why they give to us, why they support us, why they volunteer with us, why they advocate for us, we can then start to build better relationships with those individuals, and that helps to drive our business on the other side as well. You know, we can't do our work unless we really access the resources from the public. So for us, building this infrastructure of having everything from a great CRM system to have very predictive tools on public health are the things that we're trying to incorporate. The March Times, which I think makes us much more of a 21st century organization than, you know, the 20th century organization that we were founded as. Right. So.
But it's something that's really important to me. I know it's not something that people get super excited about, but to me, I'm. I guess I'm a little bit of a geek in that way, because I'm probably like you, Patrick. I mean, these things excite me because me, they tell me that we're getting smarter and more effective, I think, or have the potential, at least.
[00:39:51] Speaker B: Well, I think you just demonstrated about it. Yeah. I think you just demonstrated a leader's role when it comes to data, and that is to make a compelling case for why we need it. I mean, that was just beautiful. That that is inspired. I think that would inspire anybody who would be bored at the idea of the term data. I mean, you, data tells stories, and that just. What a beautiful way of putting that. We've got to make the case for it. And you said we had to invest in our infrastructure to do that. One of the things I'm finding in my research, my dissertation, by the way, is being written on measuring mission. How do nonprofits measure against their missions? Not program outcome measurement or not financial data, not donor trends mission metrics. What is it that's telling us we're actually accomplishing our mission? And what I'm finding is that organization, most of the organizations that don't, and by the way, most organizations don't measure against their missions.
But one of the number one reasons is it takes capacity to do that. It takes capacity to have a measurement system. You got to have staff competence. You have to have expertise. You have to have the tools, the technology.
You have to have subject matter expertise. It takes time. It takes research sources. And that goes back to that whole investing in the nonprofit where we used to, you know, we still use the term overhead. I've never liked the term. I always thought the more appropriate term was capacity, and it takes capacity to do what you're talking about doing. So for me, you just demonstrated it perfectly. Make the case for investing in data, because that leads and guides the way.
So I love it.
What do you think are some of the other big leadership challenges in the sector? You've been around the sector now for a long time. What are the leadership challenges that you see in the sector today that we really need to address?
[00:41:56] Speaker A: Well, one of the things that I would say is around talent.
I think this exists in the private sector, too. I think for us, at the march of dimes and every other place that I've been in, I think there's one strong correlation that always holds true, and that is the highest performing teams, the highest performing organizations, to me, always have the best leaders. And these are leaders who really understand their own strengths and their own weaknesses, understand and do a great job at hiring the right people with the right skill sets and really then empowering them to do their jobs and really inspire them with a sense of confidence that leaders really believe in those team members to do what they were hired to do.
You know, when I was at Fannie Mae, and I was about 28 years old, I was one of the most senior members in the regional office for Fannie Mae. And I was young, I was the youngest, and I was the only African American. And it felt really weird and uncomfortable for me. And I was in Atlanta, which is kind of strange, because I grew up in Atlanta, and I had grown up with people that, you know, were from Georgia and from Alabama and from Atlanta. And I I don't know why I felt so awkward. I had worked on Wall street for five years. I mean, I don't know. It was just really an odd thing. But the man who hired me was the leader. He was the senior vice president of that office, and he saw me being very uncomfortable in the job I was in because I was also very quiet in a lot of meetings. I would never speak up. And we had a one on one one day, and he said, you know what, Stacy? You need to speak up more in these meetings. I hired you because you're really smart, and I know you've got a lot to offer and a lot to say. So in these meetings, I need you to say what you have on your mind and speak up. And it. What it. And honestly, Patrick, I talked to a lot of young women about that experience, because, one is, it took this man who was my boss, to somehow, in some ways, I wouldn't say validate me, but certainly validate that I was there, right. And make me feel a part of that team. And him being that explicit with me was really important. And what it also said, though, is that he really believed in me. And at 28 years old, we'd like to think that we're all super confident and can conquer the world. But you know what? It's, at 28, it's pretty young, and you don't always feel that way. I know I didn't. And so having your boss say that to me, having my boss say that to me at the time, was all it took for me to then have it in myself to know that I could do anything that I needed to do in my career. And I take that I look at that moment as a pivotal moment. And so if I can do. If he can do that for me and help me evolve into the leader I am today, then it's sort of important for me to do the same for others. And to. And I say this about people in general. I especially say it about young women who often need just that little touch of I believe in you. For them to perform at the highest level. And guess what? Because I became such a great performer, it made my boss look really good. So he knew what he was doing.
He was smart. He knew how to get the most out of me, which only helped him in the long run. Right?
And I think that's what great leaders do. I think great leaders inspire others to be the best that they can be. And I think great leaders also figure out, you know, how to take situations that don't feel inviting and comforting and make everybody feel a part. And that's the whole thing about diversity and inclusion. When we talk about creating an inclusive behavior, it's making everybody feel like they're important and their voice matters and that they can be their fullest selves on the job and that they can give the most that they have to give to whatever effort is going on. And I think, again, leaders who make great organizations are leaders that inspire and create those kinds of cultures for everyone to succeed.
[00:46:33] Speaker B: What is your availability to co host this podcast with me for the rest of its life? Wow.
[00:46:39] Speaker A: I've come anytime. I love talking to you. So this is awesome.
[00:46:43] Speaker B: This is awesome. How rich? How rich.
Yeah. And I do think that is one of the sector's biggest challenges, is talent. First of all, a lot of our sector is made up of very small organizations that don't have the capacity. Succession is a big issue when, you know, an aging executive director level across the sector means how are we preparing the next generation of leaders? So I know that for the jinx perspectives part, we're working. That's one of the products and services that we're trying to work on to help organizations think about that. But I just think you. I think you framed it beautifully. In fact, what I loved is you used some words that are part of our definition construct. You know, this podcast is called the leadership window. And for those that missed the first episode, that comes from our definition of leadership, which is that leadership is a window of opportunity.
Okay? We. We can seize it or not seize it. Leadership is a window of opportunity during which vision, inspiration, and empowerment converge to propel people toward a shared goal. And you've hit on all three of those vision, inspiration, and empowerment, like the three legged stool that we call it. So it's very affirming.
It's beautiful. You've answered part of my next question, but I want to see if there's anyone else in your mind. I'm asking all of our guests, who were the leaders in your early career or life that helped shape your view of leadership? And, of course, we've talked about your parents, which is certainly understandable. And then the one that you just mentioned who believed in you and pushed you and stretched you. Is there anyone else that comes to mind quickly that you'd want to sort of say, yeah, this is. Here's something that shaped my view of leadership early on.
[00:48:33] Speaker A: You know, I think what's really interesting is that my career at Fannie Mae, which between the company and the foundation was about 17 years, really influenced me in a. In a big way. And what's really interesting is that there were about four men that inspired me or helped me shape, helped me form a view of leadership, and all in very unique ways. The former chairman, Jim Johnson, was brilliant in terms of strategy and vision.
Frank Rains was someone who was the chair who succeeded him was someone who was, you know, deeply, deeply versed in data and technology and saw the future and how things could change based on the future and used his influence to change the world for so many people in ways that he didn't have to take credit for.
There was another man named Rob Levin who was just this kind of leader who was so deeply personal with people, like, really personally got to know people that you felt like you never worked for him, that he was just more like your friend, but you would, you know, kill any. You do anything to do well in his eyes, right. I mean, he was just that kind of person. You know, every one of the people that I worked with, and then I mentioned the other from Atlanta. I think everybody. I took a little bit of. I took a little piece of each one of them to put it all in a sort of a pot in terms of how I wanted to always see myself.
I don't think there's a. I've never been able to look at one individual person and say, yep, in that one person, they're the full leader person that I would want to be, you know, because I think everyone's human, and people have faults. Right? But I think you take a little bit of what you like about what. How people approach problems, how they approach issues, how they work through challenges, see what works and what doesn't. And you don't even have to really talk to them about it. You don't need a formal mentoring relationship to look and observe and learn from people. People and adopt and adapt some of that for yourself. And that certainly has been what I've done in my career.
[00:50:52] Speaker B: Wow.
Wow. Well, I will have to have you back on the program so that we can get some more of this. This really is fantastic. And, Stacey, I'm just. I'm so.
I'm thrilled that I know you, that I've had an opportunity to work some with you. It's. It's such an honor to have you here. You're doing such amazing work making a real global difference and just being the servant leader that you are. And you're brilliant. You're awesome. You're amazing. You're all. I really do. This has just really been great. As we wrap up, what is the.
What's that one sound bite? What is the Stacy Stewart advice for all leaders.
[00:51:39] Speaker A: Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Yeah, I think that's the best thing I can say to anyone right now. That's pretty good, especially during these challenging times.
[00:51:49] Speaker B: Yep. We got to make progress. We got to go forward. We can't get paralyzed by making sure every little thing is perfect, because it never will be. Stacy, thanks again, and thank everyone for listening and tuning in, and we'll see you here in a couple of days with another great episode. Lead on.
